The connection between the 70 years of Babylonian captivity and the "seven times" prophesy

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Kerry Huish
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Re: The connection between the 70 years of Babylonian captivity and the "seven times" prophesy

#21 Post by Kerry Huish » 1 year ago

Get out of her wrote:
1 year ago

Kerry Huish wrote:
Could you provide a simple, clear list of these 7 fortold apotasies and rebirths and when exactly they occurred.

I hope you can appreciate Kerry that it is not the prerogative of ANYONE to do such a thing but Jehovah himself. Moreover there is NO NEED for anyone else to do so since this list of spiritual cleansings and rebirths as well as their corresponding time frames have already been produced for us by Jehovah in his written word, with at least MANY of them being pinpointed even to the specific year.
That's dissapointing.

Kind Regards

K

Get out of her
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Re: The connection between the 70 years of Babylonian captivity and the "seven times" prophesy

#22 Post by Get out of her » 1 year ago

The moment we begin to grasp the deeper symbolic meanings of things like the distinction being portrayed for us between the figurative NebuchadNezzar entity and the NebuchadRezzar one in this setting of a spiritual baptism of God's nation, is the exact same moment we begin to be in a position to recognize that a seemingly ENDLESS STREAM of scriptures THROUGHOUT the Bible are actually designed to do the EXACT SAME THING in different ways. Once again, each of these different ways of representing this phenomenon sheds light on a particular facet of it which not only is CRUCIAL for us to grasp in these settings or time frames, but which otherwise would likely have left us in the dark if it had not been added to the mix.

Yes this is simply yet another way that Jehovah is representing the DIVIDE that must always now occur in WHAT WAS his "woman" or "mountain" when it is completely defiled with an act of spiritual harlotry in preparation for the sanctifying and re-inaugurating of a NEW manifestation of his theocratic power and authority on the earth. Once again, this rebirth of the nation is not complete until the broken covenant is NOT ONLY RENEWED, but also ultimately "inaugurated" with the blood of Jehovah's prophets. (Lu 22:29) (He 9:16-18) UNTIL SUCH TIME, not only are ALL OF US (including even the ones who have "gotten out from among and separated themselves" from the "unclean thing") (2 Cor 6:17) still carrying the figurative "teraphim" of Rachael like a menstruating woman after FLEEING from what is suddenly now a much more oppressive version of Laban, (much in the way that ancient Egypt suddenly became very oppressive the Hebrews?) (Ge 31:34, 35) but if we now wish to be counted among the "DISCREET virgins" as opposed to the "foolish," WE MUST OWN UP TO IT!

Once again, in this particular drama of the 70 years of Babylonian captivity we find that it was ONLY the prophets Daniel and Jeremiah that were represented as taking the lead in accepting the burden of guilt for this apostasy of God's nation. (La 1:11-22) (Da 9:1-19) Was it merely coincidence that these same two figures were correspondingly among the first to have this forfeited theocratic power and authority RESTORED to them? In precisely the same manner that we saw reflected also in the first century, ALL SUBSEQUENT bestowals of this shepherding authority and power originated NOT directly from Jehovah, but rather from the ones who had now qualified themselves also as PRIESTS (either literally or figuratively) by means of offering up their own flesh and blood as atonement for this great sin. (Joh 20:22) Here in the case of this very same setting in ancient Babylon, this was represented by the way in which AFTER Daniel had already received great power and authority, it was HE HIMSELF who took the lead in all the subsequent appointings. (Da 2:49)

When we bear in mind however that much in the same way that the disciples of John the Baptist and Jesus at some point began to ONLY accept the teachings or figurative "vegetables" of these prophets, we should note that this very same pattern was reflected here also in the setting of ancient Babylon when it came to the ones who received this SUBSEQUENT appointment. In other words, we can be certain that at SOME POINT at least, the disciples of these prophets grew to attaining the very same mindset of accepting the community responsibility that Jehovah always assigns to these apostasies. (Le 4:3) Among other things however, this should raise the following question:

In this final foretold context of YET ANOTHER birth or "coming" of God's kingdom, if we have allowed things to deteriorate for us personally to the point where we can no longer even IDENTIFY the nation that HAD qualified for at least a short time as Jehovah's special property, how in turn could we ever even HOPE to accept responsibility for its spiritual defeat? Jesus and John the Baptist were certainly not wasting their time trying to determine whether is was the Sadducees or the Pharisees who now represented true and faithful Judaism. They were keenly aware that there no longer WAS any organized manifestation of true religion on the earth, and they were more than prepared to both minister and to DIE in order to assist Jehovah in changing that! (Mt 20:28) Could it perhaps be the "expressions inspired by demons" that have led us to imagine that we do not ALSO need to accept responsibility for this final foretold apostasy at the same level that our "leader" and "exemplar" did in the case of the FIFTH foretold one? (Isa 53) (Mt 16:24, 25) (Re 16:13) (Da 9:25) Why do we continue to find this very same prophetic pattern being prophesied for future times by the Apostle John in 96 CE? (Re 11:3, 7-12)

But assuming we have now reached the point where we are beginning to recognize that such things apply just as much in our own time as they EVER did, how might the manner in which Jehovah represented the "splitting" of this "rock" into two parts here in this context of national apostasy also as a dividing of ONE "woman" into TWO help us to better appreciate exactly HOW we can be among the ones he will ultimately recognize as the "PETER" or NEW piece of rock? (Mt 16:18, 19) Do we perhaps find that one of these two women is represented as humbly and repentantly OWNING UP to the truth or reality of the situation she now faces, while the other does not? If so, how exactly does one of these women begin distinguishing herself as the NebuchadNezzar entity in this setting while the other one identifies herself as the figurative NebuchadRezzar one? I will endeavor to pick up the discussion with the answers to these questions beginning with my next post.

Agape love;
Sol

Get out of her
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Re: The connection between the 70 years of Babylonian captivity and the "seven times" prophesy

#23 Post by Get out of her » 1 year ago


"2 "Better it is to go to the house of mourning than to go to the banquet house, because it is the end of all mankind; and the one alive should take it to his heart. 3 Better is vexation than laughter, for by the crossness of the face the heart becomes better. 4 The heart of the wise one is in the house of mourning, but the heart of the stupid one is in the house of rejoicing. 5 Better it is to hear the rebuke of someone wise, than to be the man hearing the song of the stupid ones." (Eccl 7:2-5)


The more deeply we study, pray, and meditate on God's written word, the more we will begin to understand that there are ultimately only THREE contexts or settings that are being considered at any given time. These three settings would be that of a spiritual death of God's nation or people, their spiritual rebirth, or the situation that lies directly in between these two spiritual conditions. The scriptures refer to this interim period in which Jehovah's "rock," "crag," or "secure height of salvation" is being "struck" and "split in two" as a spiritual "BAPTISM," or even a "baptism of HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE" due to the fact that that this phenomenon is all about a spiritual cleansing and rebirth of his "nation" or "kingdom." (Ez 22:18-22) (Mal 3:3) (Mt 3:11)

Yet another thing we will eventually come to recognize is the fact that the VAST MAJORITY of the scriptures are to be found in the context of this baptismal period, and this is because this setting is BY FAR the most critical one for Jehovah's prophets and anointed ones to grasp. The above passages here in Ecclesiastes are among MANY THOUSANDS of examples of this. However the fact is that ALL such "proverbs" or "wise sayings" ("sayings of understanding") (Pr 1:2) found in the Bible will begin to make much more sense to us when we begin to appreciate TWO ADDITIONAL things here which are ALSO rather key or critical for us to grasp. What might these be?

Not only should we begin recognizing Bible books like Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes and in fact essentially the ENTIRE BIBLE as basically a large grouping of puzzle pieces to be fitted into one of these three available settings, but also that these proverbs or WISE sayings of priceless "hidden" scriptural treasure (Pr 2:4) are in fact ultimately representing the manner in which the "faithful and WISE slaves" or "DISCREET virgins" begins to distinguish themselves from the "wicked and sluggish" or "foolish virgins" IN THIS CONTEXT OF A SPIRITUAL BAPTISM! Yes, this distinction being represented here between these two entities is simply YET ANOTHER way that the Bible points prophetically and symbolically to this division that ALWAYS commences when WHAT WAS Jehovah's "rock" or "secure height of salvation" is once again in a "WILDERNESS" setting, being "struck" and "split in two" in preparation for yet another of the foretold "seven times" that his nation would need to be cleansed and reborn. (Da 4:23, 32)

Once again, this "wilderness" context is due to the fact that the moment the marriage covenant is violated with spiritual adultery, what WAS God's nation or kingdom is ALREADY off of its soil or land in a SPIRITUAL sense, or otherwise now qualifies as a spiritual FOREIGNER like a figurative "Nebuchadnezzar" or even a "Syrian army chief" who is now in line for yet another of his figurative foretold "seven plunges into the Jordan River." (2 Ki 5:14) Rest assured it is no coincidence that it is the moment in which Jehovah's prophets or "two witnesses" are represented also there in Revelation 11 as experiencing a spiritual "CONQUERING" or "KILLING" that they are now pictures as being NOT In Israel, but rather on the "broad way of the GREAT CITY which in a SPIRITUAL sense is called Sodom and Egypt, WHERE THEIR LORD WAS ALSO IMPALED." (Re 11:7, 8) Just as pointed out in MANY scriptures such as Isaiah 1:21, the moment this "apostasy" or spiritual unfaithfulness occurs on the part of Jehovah's appointed shepherding class, what WAS up until that moment "the faithful town" or Israel, "BECOMES a prostitute" or even a "great harlot." (Re 17:18)

It is absolutely IMPERATIVE we understand that just as has been demonstrated for us with THOUSANDS OF YEARS of scriptural history, there is NEVER more than ONE nation or "religion" on the earth that is recognized by Jehovah as HIS "special property" or "people." This is REGARDLESS of the fact that other nations/religions could be recognized as directly RELATED to God's people, such as was in fact represented for us with ancient nations that SURROUNDED Israel, such as Edom, Moab, and Ammon. (De 2:4, 5 18:19)

In other words, just as it is only a WIFE that is ever in a position to commit adultery, at any given time there is only ONE nation/"religion" on the earth that is even in a POSITION to break Jehovah's marital or kingdom "covenant" and consequently qualify as this "Great" spiritual "prostitute" or "harlot." When it comes time now for this "prostitute" to be "struck" and "split in two," the only question at this point is how might some of what would now qualify as spiritual "virgins" and even "widows" (due to what is now the nonexistence of marital relations with Jehovah) begin to distinguish themselves as more resembling the figurative "RAHAB the harlot" as opposed to the figurative "JEZEBEL" one? (Jos 2:1)

Yes this is YET ANOTHER way in which the scriptures have represented the divide that must now occur between the figurative NebuchadNezzar entity vs the NebuchadRezzar one. ONE of these two "prostitutes" will ultimately be hurled violently down from a figurative window in the wall of a great city and be eaten by the dogs, while the other will be lowered gently down in a basket along with her entire household and subsequently be WEDDED to a figurative JUDEAN PRINCE! (Ac 9:25 (2 Cor 11:33) (Mt 1:5) This wedding of course represents the renewal of the broken marriage covenant. (Mt 25:10)

Are we beginning to understand this symbolic spiritual language which absolutely PERMEATES the entire Bible? If so, let's now take a second look at the above cited text there in Ecclesiastes as well as some more scriptural examples of how this division between what are now TWO women here in the spiritual "wilderness" are represented symbolically in the scriptures, and see if we can begin to better understand how they can help us to begin being recognized by Jehovah as more resembling the RAHAB manifestation rather than the Jezebel one.


"2 "Better it is to go to the house of mourning than to go to the banquet house, because it is the END OF ALL MANKIND; and the one alive should take it to his heart. 3 Better is vexation than laughter, for by the crossness of the face the heart becomes better. 4 The heart of the wise one is in the house of mourning, but the heart of the stupid one is in the house of rejoicing. 5 Better it is to hear the rebuke of someone wise, than to be the man hearing the song of the stupid ones." (Eccl 7:2-5)


The reason ONE of these two figurative women is represented here as being in the "house of mourning" is because this setting is once again in the context of a broken marriage or kingdom covenant between God and mankind. ONE of these women not only RECOGNIZES or otherwise has "caught sight" (Mt 24:15, 16) of the fact that this is the reality of the situation everyone now faces, but is also humbly and repentantly owning up to it and even accepting responsibility for it.

Now that we understand the setting of this scripture, these terms such as "banquet house" or "house of rejoicing" might call to our minds scriptural passages found in this very same context such as when the ancient King Belshazzar broke the kingdom covenant with Jehovah that his father NebuchadRezzar had managed to hold in tact for several decades. (Da 5:1-4) We might notice that the prophet Daniel who had been elevated to the second in command of the entire kingdom some 70 years earlier was now suddenly represented not only as not being present at this "banquet of rejoicing," but at this point ones like Belshazzar himself didn't even remember WHO HE WAS! (Da 5:7-12)

This "writing on the wall" which nobody but Daniel is now able to interpret is essentially representing the very same thing that the "dreams and visions" of King Nebuchadnezzar were being used to symbolically picture decades earlier. (Da 2:1-3) In these settings of complete national apostasy, it is ONLY Jehovah's prophets or "two witnesses" who possess the level of holy spirit required to understand the "sacred secrets" of Jehovah's word. (1 Cor 4:1) (Col 2:3) (Re 11:3)

This "song of the stupid ones" is being used here to represent the very antithesis of the "song" mentioned in accounts like Revelation 14:3 which "…NOBODY was able to master but the 144,000 who have been bought from the earth." Yes, in a context in which ONCE AGAIN essentially EVERYONE (including the exiles of what WERE God's people) is right back in front of a figurative "great golden image on the plain of Dura" performing acts of worship, the MINISTRY of Jehovah's TRUE prophets seems VERY unfamiliar! (Da 3:1) Their words and teachings sound foreign and strange. Even in the eyes of the family that RAISED these teachers, it's as if these prophets have suddenly LOST THEIR MINDS! (Mr 3:20-22) BY NO MEANS are Jehovah's prophets prepared to deceive both themselves and others into believing that everything is okay and it is a time for rejoicing. (Jer 11:8) (1 Th 5:3) They are now prepared to GIVE UP THEIR VERY LIVES to do their part in aiding Jehovah with his purpose of re-instituting what is once again a broken kingdom covenant!

Now that we understand that this scripture here in Ecclesiastes is in the context of a broken kingdom covenant, do the words –"end of all mankind" suddenly take on more meaning for you? Once again, it is ALWAYS this covenant that ESTABLISHES Jehovah's "rock" or "horn of SALVATION" for mankind IN THE FIRST PLACE! (Ps 18:2) Well if you are acknowledging a coming BIRTH you are by extension acknowledging a preceding DEATH! (1 Cor 15:36) Just as the Apostle Paul said: "A day of Jehovah DOES NOT COME unless the "APOSTASY COMES FIRST, and the man of lawlessness is revealed." (2 Th 2:3)

Are we currently among the ones who are eagerly anticipating yet another coming of God's kingdom or not?! When Jehovah's "rock" or "mountain" is being "struck" and "split in two," it is essentially BECAUSE "NOT ONE (among mankind or "those who dwell on the earth") stands written in the scroll of life….," and that is simply NOT Jehovah's purpose! (Re 13:8) (2 Pe 3:9) Yes we understand that the sacrifice of the Christ was always foreordained to be "once for all time," but unfortunately things have deteriorated for us to the point where we no longer even understand WHAT THE CHRIST IS! It is a "body of MANY MEMBERS OF ANOINTED ONES"! (1 Cor 12:12) (Strong's #5547)

Beginning with my next post, my intention is to continue considering scriptural examples of the manner in which the NebuchadRezzar entity can continue to make itself recognizable to Jehovah as more resembling RAHAB the harlot as opposed to JEZEBEL the harlot in these "seven" foretold baptismal contexts of God's nation. Please endeavor to appreciate however that even when I have finished doing so, the scriptures I will be presenting will have barely even SCRATCHED THE SURFACE of what lay before us in God's written word to assist the anointed ones in preparing themselves as "DISCREET virgins" in these time frames as opposed to "foolish" ones. (Mt 25:1, 2)

Agape love;
Sol

Stranger
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Re: The connection between the 70 years of Babylonian captivity and the "seven times" prophesy

#24 Post by Stranger » 1 year ago

Hi Sol,


Get out of her wrote:
1 year ago
this is YET ANOTHER way in which the scriptures have represented the divide that must now occur between the figurative NebuchadNezzar entity vs the NebuchadRezzar one
I have been following along with these "gems" you have been diligently trying to expose. This is the first time I have heard of NebuchadRezzer, I googled it but no cigar, so I reluctantly went to JW.org and again nothing there, it was a quick search so I may be overlooking something. Is there any documentation on NebuchadRezzer available to look at? (1Cor 4:6)



Stranger

AmosAu3
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Re: The connection between the 70 years of Babylonian captivity and the "seven times" prophesy

#25 Post by AmosAu3 » 1 year ago

Hi Stranger,

I did a search in Esword in KJV. This came up with the following sample;

Jer_21:2  Enquire, I pray thee, of the LORD for us; for Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon maketh war against us; if so be that the LORD will deal with us according to all his wondrous works, that he may go up from us.

Jer_21:7  And afterward, saith the LORD, I will deliver Zedekiah king of Judah, and his servants, and the people, and such as are left in this city from the pestilence, from the sword, and from the famine, into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of their enemies, and into the hand of those that seek their life: and he shall smite them with the edge of the sword; he shall not spare them, neither have pity, nor have mercy.

Jer_22:25  And I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand of them whose face thou fearest, even into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans.

Jer_24:1  The LORD shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of the LORD, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.

Jer_25:1  The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the people of Judah in the fourth year of Jehoiakim the son of Josiah king of Judah, that was the first year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon;

Jer_25:9  Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north, saith the LORD, and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations.

Jer_29:21  Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, of Ahab the son of Kolaiah, and of Zedekiah the son of Maaseiah, which prophesy a lie unto you in my name; Behold, I will deliver them into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon; and he shall slay them before your eyes;

There is a total of 27 occurences in Jeremiah & 4 in Ezekiel.

While this difference could be deliberate, I have an idea that this may have been a copyist/translational error. Why? for the simple reason that it was possible to mistake the way the second form of the Nun was written. Nun had two different recognized forms. One of these forms were very similar to the letter N. It must be remembered that the conditions in ancient time were quite different to today. The material used, plus the place where the copying/translating was done, plus the eyesight of the person may have had some influence on this.

I have tried to reproduce these without success.

I do however agree that this should be looked at seriously in case there is some significance with a purposeful change. The studies into translating & bible editing that I've recently been doing, could allow for this to happen.

Regards, Amos.

Bobcat
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Re: The connection between the 70 years of Babylonian captivity and the "seven times" prophesy

#26 Post by Bobcat » 1 year ago

Nebuchadrezzar is an alternate (Akkadian or Babylonian) spelling of the Aramaic form Nebuchadnezzar. See here, under the first sub, "His Name." (There was another Nebuchadnezzar of a much earlier period, the Isin dynasty. The Nebuchadnezzar of the 6th century is actually referred to as Nebuchadnezzar II.)

The NET has a footnote (# 6, here) at Jer 21:2 that says:
The dominant spelling of this name is actually Nebuchadrezzar, which is closer to his Babylonian name Nabû kuddurī uṣur. An alternate spelling, which is found 6 times in the book of Jeremiah and 17 times elsewhere, is Nebuchadnezzar, which is the form of the name that is usually used in English versions.

The NICOT-Jeremiah commentary (J. A. Thompson, p.467) says similarly:
Nebuchadrezzar is the more correct form of the king's name (Akk. Nabu-kadurri-usur) and occurs several times in these chapters (Jer 21:2, 7; 22:25; 25:9). Elsewhere the name appears as Nebuchadnezzar (Jer 27:6, 8, 20; 28:3, 11, 14; 29:1, 3).

Interestingly, a footnote in the NAC-Jeremiah commentary (F. B. Huey Jr., p. 199) says:
His name is understood to mean, Nabu protects the crown or Nabu protects the boundary. A. van Selms ("The Name Nebuchadnezzar") has proposed that the Hebrew spelling Nebuchadnezzar means, may Nebu protect the mule and was intended as a deliberate insult to the Babylonian monarch.

For a similar (possible) intentional Jewish corruption of a name, see this post in connection with Baal-Zebub.


The Strong's numbers for the two versions of his name are # 5019 (Nebuchadrezzar) and # 5020 (Nebuchadnezzar).

I haven't found anything so far in any of my references that indicates any other significance between the two different spellings. They are just two different spellings for the same person.


Bobcat

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Re: The connection between the 70 years of Babylonian captivity and the "seven times" prophesy

#27 Post by Stranger » 1 year ago

Hi Amos and Bobcat,

I appreciate, the quick responses and informative. I remember seeing the name spelled that way now. It makes sense that it was just a copyist error.
With such a long and unsimple* name it would be easy to do. Sol says he's gonna distinguish the difference from the two, so I'm very interested in what he's gonna come up with. He says a lot of things that are in my mind but not common knowledge.

Since you brought up those scriptures in Jeremiah Amos, I'm looking at (Jer 21:5), wondering if that has been fulfilled or does it pertain to our day or the future ahead.

I like to consider all scripture to current thought or "thought current", I don't know if this is a good thing or not, but that's how I learn.



Stranger, (Jer 21:8)

AmosAu3
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Re: The connection between the 70 years of Babylonian captivity and the "seven times" prophesy

#28 Post by AmosAu3 » 1 year ago

Hi Stranger,

Thanks to Bobcat for his thoughts as well. I did believe it was along those lines. I do like to leave a little opening just in case there is more to it.

I'll have a think about the verse you asked about, Jer. 21:5. My first thought is that it was specific to the time, but it may have a further fulfillment.

Regards, Amos

Get out of her
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Re: The connection between the 70 years of Babylonian captivity and the "seven times" prophesy

#29 Post by Get out of her » 1 year ago

To better set the stage here for a closer analysis of how the NebuchadRezzar "piece of rock" or Peter now begins to distinguish itself from the older NebuchadNezzar one after being "struck" and "split apart" from it in the spiritual "wilderness," let's take a THIRD look at this scripture here in Ecclesiastes while focusing this time strictly on the latter portion of verse 2:

2" Better it is to go to the house of mourning than to the banquet house, because it is the end of all mankind; and the one ALIVE should take it to his heart." (Eccl 7:2)

The moment we begin to understand things like the fact that there are ultimately only three settings being presented to us in the scriptures, namely the spiritual death, rebirth, and the baptismal or cleansing period in between in connection with God's nation or kingdom, it suddenly becomes rather easy to discern which of these settings we should be placing any given scriptural passage into. In turn, the moment our spiritual eyes of understanding begin to be opened to this extent is the exact same moment we begin to be in a position to be ABSOLUTELY OVERWHELMED with what in reality is EXACTLY what God's written word HAS ALWAYS identified itself as; namely a veritable BOUNTY of "carefully concealed" "sacred secrets," which are no less than PRICELESS "HIDDEN TREASURES!" (Pr 2:4) (Col 2:3) (1 Cor 4:1) In fact with this concept of "carefully concealed" in mind, now might be the best time to consider the FIRST verse of this passage here in Ecclesiastes which we have not yet covered at all:

1"A NAME is better than good oil, and the day of DEATH than the day of ones being BORN." (Eccl 7:1)

DEATH? Better than BIRTH!!!? Could this scriptural passage perhaps be yet another example of how Jehovah "carefully conceals" his "sacred secrets" from all but his prophets and anointed ones? Might the notion of attempting to understand this holy text merely on a surface level in fact simply comprise additional proof that there are much deeper "hidden" meanings or even "treasures" being conveyed here yet again?

Particularly in view of the fact that the vast majority of mankind dies while achieving either NO NAME, or even a BAD NAME for themselves throughout the course of what the scriptures identify as a life that is "short lived" and "glutted with agitation" as well as "futility" or "vanity," hopefully we are at least BEGINNING to get the sense that much deeper things are continually being addressed here in God's written word than what might appear merely on the surface? (Job 14:1) (Ro 8:20)

The moment our eyes truly begin to be opened to such things might be the exact moment we recall that it is when Jehovah TAKES OWNERSHIP of someone that he assigns them a NAME! (Re 2:17 3:1) Please consider the following question: When parents have children, at what point do they assign them a name? Yes, it is of course when they are BORN. In other words, JEHOVAH assigns us a name, or even simply ALTERS our former one (such as changing Abram to Abraham, or NebuchadNezzar to NebuchadRezzar) the moment he actually recognizes us as "ALIVE." Now that we understand this, is it beginning to make more sense why I highlighted the word "alive" there in verse 2 of Ecclesiastes Chapter seven?

Once again we want to bear in mind the CONTEXT or SETTING being addressed here in Ecclesiastes 7 which happens to be found in this INTERIM or BAPTISMAL period immediately between a death and rebirth of God's nation. So in this setting of a complete spiritual "DEATH" on a NATIONAL level, WHO would be the ONLY ones at this moment that Jehovah recognizes as "ALIVE," and correspondingly, why might it therefore be so important for them to take this spiritual "DEATH TO HEART!?" (Eccl 7:2)

Are we beginning to better appreciate exactly why it is so very critical for us to begin grasping what is being conveyed here in the scriptures in connection with the manner in which AT LEAST SOME the "many members" of the NEW "piece of rock" must now actually begin distinguishing themselves as the figurative Rahab portion of this "woman" as opposed to the Jezebel one in this setting? (1 Cor 12:12)

While very "FEW" among the "MANY" spiritual "virgins" and "widows" of this now broken marriage covenant will ultimately prove to humbly and repentantly come to terms with it, the extremely unpleasant reality that they are facing here in anticipation of the final foretold "birth" or "coming" of God's kingdom which SHOULD have them in "MOURNING," is the "END OF ALL MANKIND." (Mt 22:14) (Eccl 7:2) (Re 13:8) This in turn means that it is ONLY someone whom Jehovah recognizes as "ALIVE" who is now in a position to perform what is ALWAYS necessary in this context of the "end of all mankind."

Yes as we all well know, the foreordained price that Jehovah has long ago set for the atoning ransom involved in this national death is a life for a life. (Ro 5:17-21) And what we are currently considering here is simply among seemingly COUNTLESS things found in the scriptures which should help us to begin TRULY understanding NOT ONLY what the Christ ACTUALLY IS, but also that it would not be "FULLY FORMED" until ALL of its "MANY MEMBERS" would qualify as "incorruptible and immortal" beings who have followed the course of their "leader" and "exemplar" ALL THE WAY TO "THE END"! (Ga 4:19) (1 Cor 12:12) (Mt 24:13)

This "end" would of course comprise the priestly act that would qualify them NOT merely as anointed, or merely the Christ, (Strong's #5547) but even also as JESUS Christ or –JEHOVAH'S ANOINTED MEANS OF SALVATION! (Strong's #5547 #2424) This is PRECISELY the reason that this now "gentile" or FOREIGN dignitary here in 2 Kings 5:14 is being represented as not TRULY or ACTUALLY being cleansed from his figurative spiritual "leprosy" until he has completed ALL "SEVEN" of these figurative BAPTISMS! The moment all seven of these foretold spiritual deaths and rebirths or "times" are completed, not only does Jehovah's nation no longer qualify as spiritually "leprous," it is also no longer FOREIGN! This is when God's "SON" is TRULY or FULLY "called OUT OF Egypt" or otherwise "the GREAT CITY which in a SPIRITUAL sense is called Sodom an EGYPT, WHERE THEIR LORD WAS ALSO IMPALED." (Da 4:23) (Mt 2:15) (Re 11:8 17:18) The "SEVEN times," or "GENTILE times," are now completed.

So therefore if this broken kingdom covenant or "sin of the PRIEST which brings guiltiness on the PEOPLE," (Le 4:3) qualifies as a spiritual death upon ALL MANKIND, and in turn the "WAGES of sin is DEATH," then we are left to confront the following question:

If all of mankind is no longer considered by Jehovah as alive, then how could any of them be in a position to offer up a life for the one that sold them yet again into death in the first place? This brings us back to the question of who does Jehovah now consider as "ALIVE" in this context of an apostasy of his nation? You see, obviously JEHOVAH HIMSELF would now be in a position of needing to perform a birth here among mankind if he intends to make them his special property again. But here is where it gets rather interesting.

The question we are now facing is what exactly qualifies as this divinely ordained "birth" of God's nation or kingdom? The reason it is so imperative to identify the ANSWER to this question is because it will identify for us who is considered "ALIVE" in these "baptismal" time frames and by extension who is in a position to assist Jehovah with the "blood inauguration" that is ALWAYS involved in a renewed kingdom covenant. (He 9:16-18) Once again, we continue to find these "births" AS WELL AS their subsequent/corresponding deaths and resurrections to heaven being prophesied to continue WELL AFTER the one that was recorded for us in the first century. So we simply need to begin tossing out all the "inspired expressions of demons" we have been programmed with our entire lives! (Re 11:7, 11, 12 12:2, 5 16:13)

To better grasp this we might think of it in the manner in which it was demonstrated for us also in the early part of the 1st century with the fifth of these foretold "seven births" of God's kingdom, which on this occasion was identified as being in its "last hour" by around 98 CE due to yet another national "apostasy" that ones like Paul had been constantly warning his fellow spiritual shepherds about. (Col 1:13) (1 Joh 2:18) (2 Th 2:1-3) Please consider these questions:

At what moment was it exactly that Jehovah announced the birth of a "son" on this fifth foretold "time?" Was it at the moment when Jesus was born as an infant from his fleshly mother? Was it at the time when he was baptized and received holy spirit from Jehovah? Or was it perhaps at the time when he was resurrected to heaven to officially inaugurate the renewed kingdom covenant with his blood? After all, it was only at that point when he was able to officially announce that full theocratic power and authority had once again been restored to the earth. (Mt 28:18, 19)

In at least some sense ALL THREE of these events qualified as a birth of God's kingdom. However we actually need to recognize the third event not so much as a birth of the nation, but rather much more as the inevitable consequence of these divine births. This very thing is being referred to in prophetic symbolisms such as found in Isaiah 66:7:

7 "Before she began to come into labor pains she gave birth. Before birth pangs could come to her, she gave deliverance to male child."

In the case of the "head" of this spirit anointed "body of many members" that comprises the Christ or whom we also refer to as our "leader" and "exemplar," both the occasion of his literal/fleshly birth AS WELL AS the time of his anointing at age 29 qualified as a direct birth at the hands of Jehovah himself, AND were officially ANNOUNCED as such. (Mt 1:20, 21 3:16, 17) Since the fleshly birth of the remainder of this "body" of the Christ would not experience a literal birth into a perfect fleshly form, obviously this initial birth would not apply in our case. However we would do well to take note of the fact that JEHOVAH clearly recognized the SECOND or what we might refer to as the SPIRITUAL birth of this Christ as MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT! It was SO significant in fact that HE PERSONALLY announced this birth directly from heaven! (Mt 3:17)

Yes, in these settings of a spiritual cleansing and rebirth of God's nation, it is the spirit anointed ones who are actually considered as "alive" by Jehovah and by extension in a position to NOT ONLY serve as future fellow "KINGS" along with their "head" or "leader," but also even as fellow "PRIESTS," by "picking up their torture stakes and following" their "exemplar" all the way to their fleshly deaths! (Re 5:10 6:11) (Mt 16:24)

So now that we at least hopefully are beginning to grasp just how important it actually is at this time for the ones here in this final foretold manifestation of the spiritual "wilderness" to begin distinguishing themselves as the "NebuchadRezzar" portion of the "rock" that was "split in two" as opposed to the "NebuchadNezzar" one, perhaps we might be more inclined to pay close attention to the way Jehovah also uses the analogy of TWO WOMEN who are in some sense ONE in this very setting.

To be continued…
Agape love;
Sol

Get out of her
Posts: 919
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: The connection between the 70 years of Babylonian captivity and the "seven times" prophesy

#30 Post by Get out of her » 1 year ago

Thank you for your question and input Stranger and everyone else on the NebuchadNezzar/NebuchaRezzar issue.

While I'm rather certain they never grasped the symbolic significance involved in the variation or distinction between these two renderings, my research indicates that the JW organization was perfectly correct nonetheless to consistently translate BOTH of these names in their New World Translation as they found them in the older Hebrew manuscripts.

When we fail to grasp deeper symbolic meanings its very understandable how one could jump to conclusions such as that this comprises a mere typographical error. However if you were to begin examining Hebrew interlinears you would find that both of these variations of the name were used for the very same Babylonian king. You might find it interesting however that even in the case of these interlinears, the translators ARE ALSO very inclined to see this as a mere typo. Its only when they are translating word for word that I see them truly paying attention to the exact spelling.

Agape love;
Sol

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