The AntiChrist

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The AntiChrist

#1 Post by Bobcat » 2 years ago

For me, this topic started on this thread (starting here). But because it started veering a bit off-topic there, I wanted to give it its own thread. This topic is also related (to some extent) to my Final King of the North thread (here). But again, to keep that thread from moving into a non-topic direction I wanted to create a new thread for the subject of "The AntiChrist."

There is an interesting dichotomy between the WT view of "AntiChrist" and how it is viewed in non-WT circles. For the WT, the AntiChrist is more or less a religious entity that has existed for centuries, represented by the clergy of Christendom. For those of non-WT persuasion, "AntiChrist" seems to be more of an end times politico-religious world leader. An individual who takes over rulership of the world and leads it into the great tribulation at Christ's return.

I hope, in this starting post, to lay out what the Bible specifically says about this subject, as well as possibly related - or mistakenly related - ideas on this topic.

What the Word AntiChrist Means

The word AntiChrist is Strong's # 500 and is a compound of anti (Strong's # 473) and Christos (Strong's # 5547). AMG's The Complete Word Study Dictionary ─ NT defines it as, "literally an opposer of Christ or one who usurps the place of Christ, found only in John's epistles and collectively meaning all who deny that Jesus is the Messiah and that the Messiah is come in the flesh (1Jn 2:18, 22; 4:3; 2Jn 1:7).

I think some feel it must mean "in place of" rather than "against" or "opposing." But Jesus' words at Lu 11:23 make the difference somewhat moot. Someone trying to 'replace' the real Christ would be acting 'against' the real Messiah's interests. And John's description of "antichrist" and "many antichrists" does not emphasize the idea of 'replacing' so much as 'denying' the real Christ and 'deceiving' Jesus' followers. (1Jn 2:19, 22; 4:3; 2Jn 1:7) The discussion in 1Jn 2:18-27 may also be seen as describing the "many antichrists" as false anointed ones. In those verses, being anointed is put in contrast with those who "went out from us." And the 'anointing' teaches truth, whereas, the antichrists spread lies about the Christ.

What John Had to Say

The apostle John is the only Bible writer who specifically mentions the term "antichrist." So it would be interesting to see what he actually says about the topic. The following verses are the only ones that use the term antichrist in the NT:
18 Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort. (1Jn 2:18-19 NWT)

22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. . . 26 I write you these things about those who are trying to mislead you. (1Jn 2:22, 26 NWT)

But every inspired statement that does not acknowledge Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the antichrist’s inspired statement that you have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world. (1Jn 4:3 NWT)

For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 2Jn 1:7 NWT)

Those are all the specific Biblical statements about "antichrist." Although acknowledging that there are related verses on this topic, what can we pick out about "antichrist" from just these verses? Several things can be derived:

1. "You have heard that [the] antichrist is coming." (1Jn 2:18a) Although, Biblically speaking, John's readers only first saw the term "antichrist" in John's letters, they obviously had heard the topic discussed before John wrote. So this lends itself to the idea that earlier NT (and possibly OT) writings were considered to have discussed this idea. We'll come back to that later. (Incidentally, "antichrist" in 1Jn 2:18 is anarthrous. This is why I put brackets around "the." Here are a number of renderings that render it both ways. The older NWT does not have "the." The newer one does. But see my comments on this post regarding variations in the published texts.)

2. "Even now many antichrists have appeared." (1Jn 2:18b) This phrase shows that what they heard was "coming" had, by then, already begun to arrive. This also touches on the definite article that I bracketed in point "1." "The antichrist" might suggest or allow for an individual who was expected to fulfill this role. But John leaves off the article, suggesting, or at least allowing for, "antichrist" to be a collective term under which many individuals would operate in that role. 1Jn 4:3 also carries the idea that they knew antichrist was coming, and was already in the world.

3. "From which fact we know that it is the last hour." (1Jn 2:18c) This phrase shows that the appearance of these many "antichrists" was indicative of a particular era or time frame. Regarding "the last hour," Constable's Notes says,
Throughout the New Testament the writers regarded the present inter-advent age, after the Incarnation and before the Lord’s return, as the last hour or the last days. This is the final period before the Lord Himself breaks into history again.

Similarly, Paul G. Hiebert (An Introduction to the New Testament, Vol I), as quoted in Constable's Notes, posits that "the last hour" is equivalent to "the last days":
For Peter [in Acts 2:17], this outpouring of the Spirit began the period known in Scripture as the ‘last days’ [Ac 2:17] or the ‘last hour’ (1 John 2:18), and thus the whole Christian era is included in the expression."

On John's use of the term "hour," Robertson's Word Pictures points out that this is a "common idiom in John's Gospel (Jn 2:4; 4:21, 23; 5:25, 28; 7:30 etc.)" (Vol VI, p. 411) In all these places the term "hour" has a similar meaning to how we would use the word "time." Thus, John's "the last hour" would be equivalent to Jude's "the last time" (Jude 1:18), which also equates with Peter's "the last days." (2Pe 3:3)

The upshot of all this is that John was expecting the appearance of "antichrists" to be a significant development of the inter-advent era. An era that now stretches across nearly 20 centuries. (For a listing of various phrases having a similar meaning to "last days," see this post.)

4. "They went out from us."(1Jn 2:19a) "They," agreeing with "many antichrists," would again suggest that John understood, not some particular individual, but many individuals that would be a part of an 'antichrist class,' as it were, just going by what John has written so far. The fact that "they went out from us," that is, from Christianity, would also locate this phenomenon as an inter-advent development. It would also mean that John saw this development as an apostasy from what he considered to be the true Christian faith.

5. "They went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort." (1Jn 2:19b) This phrase shows that there was some divine purpose in allowing this situation to develop. Not only was the situation foreseen, but God and Christ foresaw something useful that would come out of it. (Compare 2Th 2:10-12)

6. "Those who are trying to mislead you." (1Jn 2:26) And, "For many deceivers have gone out into the world." (2Jn 7) These two phrases help show that this apostasy was not simply disaffected people leaving John's religion, but that there was an intelligent and malevolent purpose behind the operation of "antichrist." It suggests that there was a mastermind, and a master plan, behind this development. And that it was intended to adversely affect the main body of true Christians. (Compare 2Th 2:9-10)

All these factors should help us to identify other scriptures that form the prophetic description of this development. (Ac 20:29-30)

Another "AntiChrist"

Before concluding this post, it seemed appropriate to mention that there is at least one other individual that rightly deserves the term "antichrist." In fact, he could correctly be seen as "The AntiChrist." And yet, based on the verses quoted from 1 John, this person would not be included among the "antichrists" that John talks about. Who would this be?

It would be none other than Satan the Devil. From the very beginning of his rebellion he was foretold to be a staunch opponent of "the seed of the woman." (Gen 3:15) He is described as having been continually bent on eliminating that seed. (Rev 12:3-4) And when he failed in that endeavor (Rev 12:5), he went after those who became the 'seed of the woman' via their faith in the Christ. (Rev 12:13, 15, 17)

I mention this because this leaves open the possibility for some to confuse the activities of the foretold "antichrist" and "many antichrists" that John speaks of, with some of the foretold activities of this spirit 'antichrist.' Indeed, the two are very much related. (Compare 2Th 2:9)

This post is continued in post # 6 in this thread (here).


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Re: The AntiChrist

#2 Post by Dajo1 » 2 years ago

I was pondering the video that StoneCrier had in the post “is the NWT accurate”.
At work I was reading Dan 7 again and I can see the angle that the video takes it on. One verse got me thinking Dan 7:23
And like StoneCrier I seem to be currently in a state of flux.

KJV Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

NLT Then he said to me, "This fourth beast is the fourth world power that will rule the earth. It will be different from all the others. It will devour the whole world, trampling and crushing everything in its path.

WEB “So he said, ‘The fourth animal will be a fourth kingdom on earth, which will be different from all the kingdoms, and will devour the whole earth, and will tread it down, and break it in pieces.

2001 Trans Then he told me this:
‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom
That will also rule over the earth.
It will be greater than all other kingdoms;
For, it will devour all the lands…
It will trample upon them and cut them to bits.

I dived back into the WT Daniels Prophecy book and it swung me the other way again, regarding this 4th beast and how it was different, they quite convincingly spend quite a few pages talking about the roman empire and how it held sway even after the last emperor was removed in 476ce and Papal Rome held sway. Different I guess.

It does make sense that THE finale of the greatest battle in the universe would involve the two Individuals – Jesus Christ and Satan
(I feel bad even using a capital S).
I guess it is appropriate that at the very last contest it would come to a kind of head to head thing.

Then in that sort of scenario Satan would be the actual, and the epitomy of “The AntiChrist”.
An individual.

In another post - “The Final King of The North” there is some extensive research on who that is in the first century that points to Nero as an individual.

I feel Revelation 13 could describe a final nasty (from a Christian standpoint) King. And I'm wondering if this is King North and is an Individual somehow involved?
(Just want to state here that I am not convinced about WTs latest pronouncement re Russia being KoN)

The 4th beast has this weird horn with 2 eyes and 1 mouth – Talking tough stuff. An Individual? Possibly, yes.
The one in Revelation does then same. “.. a mouth speaking great things.. An Individual?

So are Dan 2 and 7 about different Kings, Kingdoms, or Rulers or Rulerships?
I don't know, however,for Daniel 2 and 7 and Revelation 13 to mesh and have the detail that is described in Rev 13 something would need to be available:
There is no question that Daniel Chapter 2 is a unique amazing way of describing the general run and sequence of a series of world powers. It is crisp and polished in the way that it is described and uncanny (might be wrong word here) in its accuracy.

However that is what it does (the statue, image thing) period. No argument.

For a symbolic WAY that those Kingdoms would ACT and interact and the way they would rule and the effects of their reigns could possibly be explained in a far more accurate and meaningful way. Why not use a parallel description of some living entities like strange beasts to describe that like in Daniel 7 which could then be called upon in the book of Revelation?
Revelation could not be written the way it is if the Statue in Daniel 2 was all it had to go on. By using a parallel to that image we have John's writings "fleshed" out in an entirely comprehensible way.

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Re: The AntiChrist

#3 Post by Bobcat » 2 years ago

Greetings Dajo,

Here are a couple of links that describe how the Roman Empire was different from previous empires: Here and here. (Dan 7:7)

Here is a google search list that has a number of other links to this topic.


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Re: The AntiChrist

#4 Post by Stranger » 2 years ago

Hi Bobcat and all others,

Here is an interesting date and statement that I found while looking other stuff up.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

" The change from the True Church into the reign of AntiChrist is said to have taken place between Feb 19th and Nov 10th, A.D. 607 when Pope Boniface III obtained from the Greek emperor Newton, the title "Head of All the Churches" for the Roman Church."

For what it's worth, "All roads lead to Rome".

Stranger, (Ro 1:32)

Get out of her
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Re: The AntiChrist

#5 Post by Get out of her » 2 years ago

Hello Bobcat:

From everything I see in the scriptures you would be perfectly correct to see all these things you touch on here as being directly connected with each other. Moreover 1 John 2:18 alone would verify you are correct to not be recognizing the Antichrist as merely some kind of demonically possessed individual who bodes doom and gloom for mankind when he finally appears as Christendom's religious leaders would have us believe. This is not an individual and obviously this Antichrist entity was making its presence manifest at least as early as the end of the first century as John clearly points out.

Though I have not posted it on this particular website, a couple months ago I wrote the following on the topic of the Antichrist and I hope you find these comments to be helpful on the subject:

What we've been dealing with for decades now for the "eighth" (Re 17:11) foretold time as opposed to the "seventh," is a Babylon the Great in a "FALLEN" condition, or in the periods of time when by means of this adulterous alliance this entire entity crouches back down on all fours like a "wild beast," is given back its "LOATHSOME""wings of an eagle," and its "heart of a man" is replaced with one of "stone." (Ez 11:19) (Da 4:33 9:27b) (Re 12:14 18:2) (Le 11:13) This is not simply for the reason that God always "abandons his house" when these acts of spiritual harlotry occur on the part of his "woman" or otherwise because the "constant feature" is "removed" from this "sanctuary" when this adulterous alliance is formed. It is also due to exactly what now REPLACES this theocratic authority and power or as Daniel says - is "put in its place." (Mt 23:38) (Da 11:30-32) Bible dictionaries actually reveal that the very definition of the word Antichrist would literally be-replacement or substitute Christ; which is exactly what the prophet Daniel is saying here in Daniel 11:31. Contrary to what we so often have been led to believe, the prefix –anti actually conveys the concept of replacement or substitution more than it does opposition. (Strongs #473)

Yes once again as we can see from scriptures like Revelation 18:2, the demons are now allowed to rush in and fill the void that was created when this "constant feature" is "removed." This "fallen" "Babylon the Great" is now exactly what is stated in Revelation 16:13, namely a three part entity comprised of the "dragon, the wild beast, and what is now a "FALSE prophet." (Re 16:13) (1 Sa 16:14) This is evidently the primary reason that the repentant or "Rahab" portion of this spiritual prostitute must now "fly to the wilderness" or "get out of her," as Revelation 12:14 explicitly states that this flight is for the purpose of being "away from the face of the SERPENT." (Re 12:14)

It is the demonic aspect of this "GREAT CITY which in a spiritual sense is called Sodom and Egypt where their lord was also impaled" which primarily qualifies this "fallen" entity as a "disgusting thing." (Re 8:11) Moreover, the fact that even the spirit anointed ones who now "separate themselves" from the apostate nation and thus are pictured here with these "wings of the great eagle" in the "wilderness" is once again because of the community responsibility that is ALWAYS assigned to the ENTIRE shepherding class when these marital covenants are violated. (1 Cor 6:17) (Mt 24:15, 16) (Re 12:14) In fact even these ones who now begin to feed on the "carcass" in this spiritual "wilderness" will continue to bear these "unclean" wings until the moment that the broken covenant is once again renewed with yet another "harvest" and its accompanying blood atonement. (Mt 24:28)

Among the things this information reveals is the exact identity of the "man of lawlessness" or "Antichrist." This "son of destruction" is actually the Great City or Babylon the Great specifically in a "FALLEN" condition or otherwise when it is comprised of the "dragon, the wild beast, and the false prophet" by means of yet another act of spiritual adultery on the part of God's appointed shepherding class. You see if a "FALL" of Babylon the Great means that she "HAS BECOME the "dwelling place of demons," this by extension means that when in a "STANDING" position, Babylon the Great is among other things NOT a "dwelling place of demons." (Re 18:2) (Da 7:4) Up until the moment that the marriage covenant is violated the "three parts" of this "great city" consist of God, his covenant people and the foreign nation that is treating her NOT as oppressed slaves, but rather more like the ancient Pharaoh treated Joseph and his fellow Hebrews. (Re 16:19) (Ge 41:39-44)

We all seem to have utterly failed to grasp that the Apostle John in particular actually pinpointed this as the exact definition or identity of this "disgusting thing that causes desolation" when he chose the word "Antichrist" as opposed to terms like "man of lawlessness, or "son of destruction." Once again, in a Bible dictionary we find that this term Antichrist literally means—replacement or substitute Christ. (Strong's #500 #473 #5547) Perhaps we have largely been mislead by the way in which this term- ANTI always seems to be recognized strictly as meaning the opposite or opposing antithesis of something. You see when you bring this ACTUAL definition to what is described there in Daniel 11: 31, you suddenly discover that by choosing this particular term, the Apostle John had in fact revealed the exact identity not only of the "constant feature," but even the "disgusting thing" that is "put in its place" when these "apostasies" mentioned here in Daniel occur. How exactly is this?

Well you see if the "constant feature" is replaced or substituted in God's house or "sanctuary" with a "substitute CHRIST," this would of course mean that the "constant feature" is essentially the CHRIST! In turn, since the word Christ literally means—anointed one and by extension Christians technically means –anointed ONES, this now of course means that due to this "apostasy" spoken of here in Daniel 11:30-32, God among other things has now completely removed his holy spirit from what was FORMERLY his earthly abode or "sanctuary." In other words, this "constant feature" would EVEN MORE SPECIFICALLY qualify as God's holy spirit.

This does not mean however that there are no longer inspired utterances emanating from Jehovah's sanctuary. It's just that due to what has now REPLACED this Christ, these inspired utterances are now "UNCLEAN inspired expressions that look like frogs, and that now emanate from the "dragon, the wild beast, and the false prophet." (Re 16:13) Yes this is exactly what was being represented with the second of the ten plagues of ancient Egypt. Moreover we can see from this very same scripture that this "Antichrist" or replacement Christ is explicitly identified as a CONVERGENCE of the "dragon, the wild beast, and the false prophet." Correspondingly this means that a DESTRUCTION of Babylon the Great actually constitutes NOT an actual destruction of these three entities, but rather exactly what is stated there in Revelation 16:19:

"And the great city SPLIT INTO THREE PARTS…"

You see the resurrection of billions of people in the new world alone means that we will still be dealing with things like false religious practices and teachings for at least a period of time after even the FINAL destruction of Babylon the Great. Moreover obviously the demons would not have been destroyed at this point either as they are foretold to make a final appearance on the earth immediately after the end of the Millennial Reign. (Re 20:7) It should also already be clear at this point that this "false prophet is NOT the Anglo-American duel world power as we have long been told. Rather it is exactly what God's TRUE prophet BECOMES the moment she unfaithfully crawls into bed with the foreign nation that had formerly been respectfully playing host to her as a greatly honored guest. This spiritual harlotry now transforms her from a TRUE prophet into a "FALSE" one.

Are we perhaps still imagining that the governing body OF "Jehovah's Witnesses" is made up of spirit anointed ones at this time? Nevertheless this "Christ" or anointed one remains a "CONSTANT feature" as this holy spirit now begins to be transferred from this apostate Saul entity to the "shepherd BOY" or "David" entity, ("discreet virgins") who by means of their newly acquired eyes of spiritual understanding now begin to "flee" from the Saul entity to what will HOPEFULLY soon qualify as a spiritual "wilderness" as opposed to perhaps a figurative Philistine jailhouse. (1 Sa 21:10-15)

Yes many of us upon suddenly discovering we are actually involved in false religion initially begin imagining that religious groups we had always recognized as even our enemies are somehow now our friends or allies. Hopefully as was evidently illustrated with David here, we soon come to our senses and realize we have simply exchanged one form of religious bondage for another. After coming to recognize this mistake, David now actually enters the "wilderness" and begins to even hide in caves which the Bible often uses to represent as death or even a tomb. (1 Sa 22:1) This is simply another way of representing the "unclean wings of the great eagle" or once again the SPIRITUAL death that is assigned now to the entire theocratic shepherding class. (Le 11:13)

The moment you grasp this you will now begin to recognize that the entering into caves on the part of God's prophets is yet another thing that is commonly associated with apostasies of God's nation. For example you might recall that Elijah entered into a cave in the "wilderness" or "mountains" after "fleeing" from the "harlot-like Jezebel," or the fact that David was residing in a cave in the "wilderness" after King Saul fell into apostasy. (1 Ki 19:9) (1 Sa 22:1 23:14) You see just as the breaking of the stone tablets represented the breaking of the divine marriage covenant, the returning of Moses to the "mountain" as well as the RE-making of the broken tablets represented the RESTORATION of the broken marriage covenant.

If we fail to recognize that TRUE Christianity is actually a nation as opposed to merely one of the many thousands of religious persuasions, we can easily in turn fail to grasp the real meaning of this term "wilderness" or "mountains" in these contexts of complete apostasy. When these marriage covenants that ESTABLISH the theocratic nation AS SUCH are broken, the nation now ceases to EXIST altogether in some sense. If you now chose to remain sharing in false worship with your brothers and sisters, you can be certain it is no longer Jehovah God you are worshiping as he has now "abandoned his house." (Mt 23:38) What you are now worshiping is exactly what has now "replaced" the "constant feature," which in turn is exactly the reason you must now "flee to the mountains." (1 Cor 10:20) (Da 11:31) (Mt 14:15, 16)

At this point "Christianity" or SPIRITUAL Israel basically NO LONGER EXISTS! Unless you now obediently "get out of her," or "flee to the mountains," where you NOW actually are is in the "GREAT CITY which in a spiritual sense is called SODOM AND EGYPT where your lord was also impaled!" (Mt 23:37) (Re 11:8) Just as Jesus himself pointed out here in Matthew 23:37, you are now in a place where the king Saul entity is now hurling spears at the David entity, which even if it might be Jerusalem in a LITERAL SENSE, it is nonetheless now the "GREAT CITY in a SPIRITUAL sense.." In other words, you are now in BABYLON THE GREAT while it is in a "FALLEN" condition. But If on the other hand we now obediently "get out from among and separate ourselves" from this apostate entity and AVOID getting involved in SOME OTHER false religion or nation, we are now in a spiritual "WILDERNESS" right where we belong in these prophetic time frames of complete national apostasy.

Agape love;


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Re: The AntiChrist

#6 Post by Bobcat » 2 years ago

We pick up here where we left off in the first post. Having analyzed, to an extent, what John wrote about "Antichrist," we will now look in the NT for the passages that would have allowed his audience to have already heard about this topic.

So what passages can we come up with that would have formed the basis for the readers of John's letters to have already heard about "Antichrist"?

Matthew 7:15

Matthew 7:15 does not specifically refer to "antichrist" but does teach followers of Jesus to be on the lookout for "false prophets" that would 'come to you in sheep's coverings, but inside were ravenous wolves.' So it does have some of the elements of deception and false teaching found in John's writings about antichrist. Here they 'come to you,' whereas, in John 'they went out from us.' There are also interesting similarities with Paul's statements at Acts 20:29-30 where their origins are described as both 'coming in among you' and 'arising from among you.' False teaching and the harmful effect on the flock are also main ideas in Paul's statement.

Matthew 7:21-23

At first glance, this passage might not seem associated with John's discussion of the Antichrist. But in fact, there are definite links between them.

After stating that only those doing his Father's will get into the kingdom, Jesus envisions a situation in which "many" would be appealing to him as their "Lord." Their use of the double vocative ("Lord, Lord") would indicate that there is some stressful or tense situation involved. (Compare, for example, Gen 22:11-12) The fact that "many" are making this anxious appeal would indicate that this is no mere personal problem. Rather, something large scale is taking place. The exact nature of the problem is revealed when Jesus says that this happens on "that day."

"That day" was a sort of Jewish technical term for the "day of Jehovah." The day when God would suddenly impose Himself into mankind's affairs for judgment. (Ac 17:30-31; 1Th 5:1-3) Jesus associated "that day" with his return. (Mt 24:36-37) It is apparent that, for these "many," "that day" is not progressing as they might have imagined. Based on scriptures such as Rom 2:9 and 1Pe 4:17, we might even surmise that this scene that Jesus is painting is taking place very early on the day of Jehovah. (See also post # 24 on this thread.)

But what is the connection between this passage and what John wrote about Antichrist? It is the fact that these "many" are addressing Jesus as their "Lord," yet, Jesus is denying that there was any relationship between them. (Jesus' reply to them is possibly drawn from Ps 6:8.) The "many" actually think they have proof of their relationship to Jesus in the form of powerful works and exorcisms. But they have been duped. They have fallen prey to an elaborate deception, that even involves the demons. (See point # 6 in post # 1 of this thread.)

Although this passage is relatively brief, by itself, it would indicate that the deception is only fully exposed on "that day." And that those who are deceived by it are found to be complicit in some way.

Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43

This parable describes Jesus as a man who planted wheat in his field. Then an enemy (Satan) over-sows look-alike weeds in the field. The situation is allowed to continue like this until "the conclusion of the age/system of things." It is at that point in time when the weeds are disposed of first. Then the wheat is put into the landowner's storehouses.

There are definite similarities with this parable and Mt 7:21-23. The weeds are meant to look like the wheat, but are of no value. Similarly, the "many" of Mt 7:22 imagine themselves to be Jesus' disciples, but are not. The "many" are rejected on "that day," and the weeds are disposed of at "the conclusion of the system of things." (For a survey of every occurrence of "conclusion of the system of things" and its meaning, see here.)

Another similarity is that the "many" of Mt 7:22 appear to have been deceived by powerful works and exorcisms that helped them to believe that they were serving God and Christ. You see a similar deception in the parable of the wheat and weeds where the weeds are of a type that are intended to be confused with the wheat (the true "sons of the kingdom). And both of these tie in with the deceptive aims of the "antichrist" and "many antichrists" of John's letters.

Matthew 24:24

Matthew 24:24 has Jesus warning his disciples about "false christs" (Strong's # 5580) and "false prophets." They are described in the context as having great deceptive ability and teaching falsehoods about Jesus' parousia so as to gather disciples to themselves.

Tentative Findings

Combining what we have now, we have Satan as the mastermind behind this deceptive effort (from Mt 13:24-30, 36-43). And his use of false teachers who originate from within the Christian congregation as the means of carrying out his deception (1Jn 2:19). We also have a time frame within which this deceptive effort plays out: Starting in the first century (sometime after 29 CE when Jesus started 'sowing'), and concluding at Jesus' return. Mt 7:22-23 shows that demons are involved. And in Mt 13:24-30, 36-43, Satan is revealed as the chief mastermind behind the deceptive effort.

Interestingly, neither John's remarks about the "antichrist" and "many antichrists," nor in Mt 7:21-23; 13:24-30, 36-43, are there any mentions of a singular human leader involved or any sort of world government as part of the deception. The only individual of any kind mentioned so far is Satan himself. But he could not be included among those antichrists that "went out from us [i.e. Christians]." On the other hand, he is shown to be the author of this antichrist development. So, he is an "antichrist" in his own right, even THE Antichrist, although, the Bible never specifically calls him that. (Compare 2Co 11:13-15)

There are several other NT passages that I want to analyse in connection with John's remarks about "Antichrist." I'll do that in the next post.



1. Just a thought on the starting time frame involved in the appearance of "many antichrists": I have above "after 29 CE," assuming this to be the start of Jesus' ministry. In the parable of the weeds, Jesus sows first, and the enemy sows weeds afterwards. 2Co 11:13-15 is thought to have been written about mid-50s. 2 Thessalonians (with its discussion of the man of lawlessness) is thought to have written in the early 50s. There Paul describes the 'apostasy' as 'already being at work, but restrained.' (2Th 2:7)

So, using that timing, notice this (admittedly speculative) post on when Satan is cast out of heaven. Also note this post, and especially where it discusses trumpets 2 & 3. The idea presented would place the apostasy after Satan''s ouster.

Anyways, just some food for thought and building on past ideas.

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Re: The AntiChrist

#7 Post by Bobcat » 2 years ago

Hi Sol,

Thanks for your comments. If it had been me typing them it would have taken a considerable amount of time to make a post as long as yours. (Not that your post was any longer than others. I'm just a comparatively slow typer.)

Me being the originator of this thread, your post covers too much ground for me to comment on it without risking giving carte blanche to everyone else to post on any of the myriad areas that your post covered.

I will say that you do have a sophisticated (and very difficult to follow) take on scripture. In just one post it branches out into too many areas, for me, anyways. I usually read a post, on any particular topic, with an eye towards testing the statements as I go along. Many times I can agree with some things, not agree on other parts, and some parts contain things or views I hadn't given consideration to. Your posts usually result in a sort of information overload because they usually branch out into so many areas and concepts that leave my mind not wanting to give too much effort to for fear of getting lost in the maze of novel (to me) concepts presented.

Having said that, I will also say that you excel in being polite and courteous in your posts. Always. Very commendable and a good example to follow. I do wish to be more like you in that.


PS: I might add that my posts, especially their intention, may very not always be so easy to follow. I have started some threads, like this one, to explore an area of interest and see where it leads, rather than to just make some statement. By putting information in a post I subject it to a degree of peer review. It also opens up the possibility of seeing related ideas that I wasn't familiar with or hadn't considered as being related. In the case of this thread I saw a connection with Dan 2 & 7 (commented on in someone else's thread), as well as my "Final King of the North" thread. But I also saw a need to keep this particular subject separate. Maybe that is just how my mind has come to operate.

So I say that to say that additional information and views are not unwelcome. But sometimes the views expressed may take the thread too far afield from its original subject.

One particular area of interest I was hoping to understand was the specific reasons why many expect a singular antichrist just before the end of the age. I have found that out whilst researching this topic. But I haven't fully posted on it yet, and I don't mind seeing others views and research on that particular idea. If one were to look back over my two main posts on this thread, they will see my interest in this sub-topic woven in.

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Re: The AntiChrist

#8 Post by Dajo1 » 2 years ago

Sometimes I have “gut feelings”. I would like explain with words what I mean
But I won’t.
If I did it would make sense, however I think readers her know what I mean.
I could.. but if I decided to describe “gut feelings” it might insult some readers intelligence.
The other negative is that if I wrote down my view of “Gut feelings” It would be quite long. It would be important to me, however it would take up time and energy and air and space and stuff. Some readers could become indifferent.

When I read Sols posts I am respectfully intrigued and interested. I so much often want to reply. I want to ask questions. I want to engage. What I do is think, and even pray about the things Sol writes. I do this with a lot of topics here.
I kind of view this place here at discuss the truth as part of what Daniel said as “... many will rove about.. knowledge will become abundant.

Many here are “heavy lifters”. I appreciate that. I don’t consider myself as such anymore.. but I was one in a congregation Far far away.

The reply above my comment reminded me of my “gut feeling” as it expressed what I couldn’t, today, put into words and it was done in a Christlike way. Thanks Bobcat.

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Re: The AntiChrist

#9 Post by AmosAu2 » 2 years ago

Hi David,

I believe you are quite correct about "gut feelings" even though you didn't say what you think/believe them to be.

At times, I rely on "gut feelings" myself. I believe this is one way the Spirit teaches us by these very feelings. Nuff said.

Regards, Amos.

Posts: 346
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: The AntiChrist

#10 Post by Dajo1 » 2 years ago

Thanks Amos

If you want to start a topic on Gut Feelin’s ...

Post #7 says it all.

That said I guess we would best to move over and stick to the topic. “The Antichrist”

Love ya, mate!

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