Are we already experiencing the final foretold "Great Tribulation"?

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Kerry Huish
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Re: Are we already experiencing the final foretold "Great Tribulation"?

#21 Post by Kerry Huish » 2 weeks ago

johnamos2.0 wrote:
2 weeks ago
You still seem to be under some sort of illusion that I want to discuss spiritual matters with you?
Sadly, this is not the case at the moment.

Kind Regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

johnamos2.0
Posts: 98
Joined: 1 month ago

Re: Are we already experiencing the final foretold "Great Tribulation"?

#22 Post by johnamos2.0 » 2 weeks ago

seem to be under some sort of illusion
Says the guy that keeps responding to me. :roll:

It's funny how when you think you have some point to make you are so eager to respond but then when you realize how wrong you are and you can't defend what you are saying you quickly turn to 'I am a pig' so you won't throw your pearls to me. :lol:

Kerry Huish
Posts: 410
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Are we already experiencing the final foretold "Great Tribulation"?

#23 Post by Kerry Huish » 2 weeks ago

johnamos2.0 wrote:
2 weeks ago
seem to be under some sort of illusion
Says the guy that keeps responding to me. :roll:

It's funny how when you think you have some point to make you are so eager to respond but then when you realize how wrong you are and you can't defend what you are saying you quickly turn to 'I am a pig' so you won't throw your pearls to me. :lol:
lol - see post #101 here: -

viewtopic.php?p=49274#p49274
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

Stranger
Posts: 2244
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: Are we already experiencing the final foretold "Great Tribulation"?

#24 Post by Stranger » 2 weeks ago

johnamos2.0 wrote:
2 weeks ago
It's funny how when you think you have some point to make you are so eager to respond but then when you realize how wrong you are and you can't defend what you are saying you quickly turn to 'I am a pig' so you won't throw your pearls to me.

You two need to beware of pearls coming out of New York and get back in the groove.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXeeY9D9u94


Stranger, (John 3:12)

johnamos2.0
Posts: 98
Joined: 1 month ago

Re: Are we already experiencing the final foretold "Great Tribulation"?

#25 Post by johnamos2.0 » 2 weeks ago

[Ezekiel 39:23 And the nations will have to know that it was because of their error that they, the house of Israel, went into exile,+ on account of the fact that they behaved unfaithfully toward me, so that I concealed my face from them+ and gave them into the hand of their adversaries, and they kept falling, all of them, by the sword.+ 24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I did with them,+ and I kept concealing my face from them.’25 “Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘Now is when I shall bring back the captive ones of Jacob+ and actually have mercy upon all the house of Israel;+ and I will show exclusive devotion for my holy name.+ 26 And they will have borne their humiliation+ and all their unfaithfulness with which they have acted toward me,+ when they dwell on their soil in security,+ with no one to make [them] tremble.+ 27 When I bring them back from the peoples and I actually collect them together out of the lands of their enemies,+ I will also sanctify myself* among them before the eyes of many nations.’+28 “‘And they will have to know that I am Jehovah their God, when I send them in exile to the nations and actually bring them together upon their soil,+ so that I shall leave none of them remaining there any longer.+ 29 And I shall no longer conceal my face from them,+ because I will pour out my spirit upon the house of Israel,’+ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.”]

[Joel 2: 17 “Between the porch and the altar let the priests, the ministers of Jehovah, weep and say, ‘Do feel sorry, O Jehovah, for your people, and do not make your inheritance a reproach, for nations to rule over them. Why should they say among the peoples: “Where is their God?”’]<<>>[Joel 3:1 “For, look! in those days and in that time, when I shall bring back the captive ones of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will also collect together all the nations and bring them down to the low plain of Je·hoshʹa·phat; and I will put myself on judgment with them there on account of my people and my inheritance Israel, whom they scattered among the nations; and they apportioned out my own land.]

Stranger
Posts: 2244
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: Are we already experiencing the final foretold "Great Tribulation"?

#26 Post by Stranger » 2 weeks ago

johnamos2.0 wrote:
2 weeks ago
For, look! in those days and in that time, when I shall bring back the captive ones of Judah and Jerusalem,

I don't like being an I told you so type and you may have missed it anyway but I did tell yous two.

Stranger wrote:
2 weeks ago
You two need to beware of pearls coming out of New York and get back in the groove.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXeeY9D9u94


Stranger, (John 3:12)

Stranger

Get out of her
Posts: 1029
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Are we already experiencing the final foretold "Great Tribulation"?

#27 Post by Get out of her » 1 week ago

We all very much need to appreciate the fact that just as is ALWAYS the case in the prophetic time frames that REQUIRE another of the foretold "comings of God's kingdom" or "births of the barren woman," basically NOTHING pertaining to the Holy Scriptures is being taught correctly in these time frames by organized religion or otherwise in a manner in which it would actually nourish us spiritually as opposed to even poisoning us. (Mt 16:6) (Isa 28:8) The spiritual famines and darkness connected with ALL these broken holy marriage covenants and the fact that it breaks our creator's heart DESPITE the fact that we now deserve it is among the primary REASONS that he mercifully restores Israel or TRUE Christianity to the earth in these settings in which a national apostasy has once again replaced the Christ in God's "sanctuary" or refuge ("ark," "salvation") with the counterfeit "antichrist." (Da 11:31) (2 Th 2:4) (Strong's #473) (Lu 19:41-44) (Mt 23:37, 38) The teachings in connection with the "Great tribulation" and "Armageddon" are by no means an exception to this. In fact to begin putting into perspective just how far removed these false teachings really are from truth and reality, let's quickly consider how what is symbolically by the "TENTH plague" or otherwise what would clearly qualify as even the FINAL portion of a "great tribulation" was fulfilled on the fifth of these foretold "seven times" during the first century. (Ro 15:4)

Lets not forget that "pangs of distress" are something that a PREGNANT woman experiences. (1 Th 5:3) The figurative "woman" we are considering here in scriptural prophecy is obviously no longer pregnant when she experiences what is symbolized here in the tenth plague of ancient Egypt. Just as was demonstrated for us also in the early part of the first century, the "death of the firstborn" and its commensurate "blood of the Lamb" that must now be presented before Jehovah as if the anointed would champion it by even "splashing it upon their doorposts" is in fact actually marking or confirming that the holy kingdom covenant HAS ALREADY been renewed! (Lu 22:28, 29) (He 9:16-18) At this point we are basically now dealing with the REWARD for this figurative "pregnancy" as opposed to all the "tribulations" or "pangs of distress" that led up to it, namely the actual BIRTH which in this case is of course that of genuine theocratic power and authority on the earth! But while the massive release from the slavery and bondage of ancient Egypt that this "death of the firstborn" quickly resulted in was INDEED a great reward AND EVEN also for a "vast mixed company" that now JOINED the Hebrews in what was now a GENERAL "harvest" as opposed to merely that of the "firstfruits," (the "vast mixed company" representing the distinction between the "little flock the father has approved of giving the kingdom" as opposed to the "other sheep" they would be given shepherding authority and power over), it was nonetheless at the same time the WORST PART of a "great tribulation" for all who would not now JOIN the ones performing this "exodus." (1 Cor 15:23) (Ex 12:38) (Lu 12:32) (Joh 10:16) Just as illustrated for us as far back as with the great flood of Noah's day, we are now dealing simultaneously with massive deliverance and salvation alongside massive DESTRUCTION of all God's enemies! But what exactly is the point here?

While the renewed kingdom covenant and the subsequent "death of the firstborn" that occurred in 33 CE actually marked the END or final "TENTH plague" portion of the "great tribulation" foretold for that time period, we would now do quite well to consider exactly how the "ARMAGEDDON" or "CONCLUSION OF A SYSTEM OF THINGS" facet of this fifth foretold "birth of the barren woman" would now unfold. (Da 9:24-27) (Jer 15:9) Once again it was almost NOTHING like what we have always been led to understand! The "conclusion" of the "Jewish system of things" that immediately commenced with 33 CE lasted FORTY YEARS! It culminated with the decisive defeat of the Jewish rebels in Jerusalem in 70 CE and ended altogether at the fortress of Masada four years later. We very much need to appreciate that even more important to Jehovah than expressing his full wrath upon his enemies is the SALVATION of all who would now REPENT over the spiritual "harlotry" that brought his great anger upon the earth in the first place. (Isa 1:21) The whole PURPOSE of a restored theocratic shepherding fold or TRUE Christian nation is to now begin ushering as many people into the "ark" or "sanctuary/temple" of Jehovah's salvation AS POSSIBLE! (1 Cor 3:16, 17) What will now once again be a very DIFFERENT kind of ministry than the one always designed for Jesus "brothers" to RENEW these covenants TAKES TIME! (Mt 10:5, 6 25:40) Compare (Mt 28:18-20) (2 Pe 3:9)

You see the "stripping of all the valuables" from the Egyptians that immediately followed this "splashing of the blood of the Lamb on the doorposts" on the part of the Hebrews in connection with what would now be a MASS exodus was in fact a symbolic representation of what a massive PUBLIC ministry (GENERAL "harvest" or spiritual "rebirth" as opposed to merely that of the "firstfruits") on the part of a GENUINE theocratic shepherding fold ALWAYS accomplishes by means of a renewed and inaugurated kingdom covenant. (Ex 12:35-38) (1 Cor 15:23) (Re 20:6) As opposed to the ministry to a "LITTLE flock that the father has approved of giving the kingdom," that always results in the "harvesting" of the "FIRSTFRUITS" of a birth of God's nation, (represented in this case with the flight out of Egypt 40 year earlier on the part of Moses alone) these "riches" that were "stripped from the Egyptians" actually proved to be a "VAST MIXED COMPANY" which in turn represented a "GREAT CROWD" of "OTHER sheep, which are NOT OF this" divine shepherding "fold." (Lu 12:32) (Joh 10:16) (Re 7:9)

Even if this "great crowd" would not qualify as Jews or otherwise what ones like the Apostle Paul and the writer Luke distinguished as spirit anointed shepherds of Jehovah's flock, (also referred to as Christians in this setting of a renewed covenant as opposed to simply spiritual Israelites), the moment THEY would officially come under this renewed covenant with a WATER baptism (as opposed to one of "holy spirit and fire"), REGARDLESS of their specific genetic lineage or nationality they would now qualify as EXACTLY what was symbolized with the ancient tribe of Ephraim AS WELL AS what this tribe ULTIMATELY manifested itself as upon later becoming isolated from the EARTHLY "CAMP" of its shepherding counterpart. (Song 6:13) (Ro 2:28, 29) (Ac 18:24-28) (Mt 3:11) What was this? This was the "full equivalent of NATIONS" which until the moment they would ALSO fall into the same level of spiritual "prostitution" that their "sister" would already have at this point, would nonetheless qualify as ISRAELITES. (Ge 48:19) (Eze 23:1-4 37:16-19) (Isa 1:21) (Zec 11:7, 14-17)

So upon this "striking of the first born" and its commensurate presentation of the "blood of the Lamb," what is now once again a GENUINE theocratic shepherding "fold" made up of TRUE Christians is tasked with all the trials and "tribulations" involved with the ministry spoken of in accounts like Matthew 28:18-20 as opposed to Matthew 10:5, 6. In stark contrast with the ministry represented/illustrated essentially as being conducted STRICTLY by Jehovah himself which resulted in MOSES ALONE performing an "exodus" or "running away" from Egypt around 40 years earlier, (this and his corresponding shepherding of the little flock of Jethro representing the ministry to Jesus' "brothers" which the earth is experiencing yet again at this very moment), what we are now dealing with is a ministry that DOES NOT involve merely "two witnesses" or genuine "appointed" prophets of Jehovah like Moses and Aaron or Jesus and John the Baptist. (Ex 2:15 3:1) Compare (Mt 24:15, 16) (Re 12:6, 14) (Re 11:3) (Mt 24:45 25:40) Just as was demonstrated for us also between the years of 33 and 74 CE, this PUBLIC ministry always soon results in a MASS exodus, not so much from Egypt or for that matter even Babylon the Great, but more specifically from what these entities represented symbolically in a "FALLEN" spiritual condition in which the Joseph/Pharaoh or even Daniel/ Nebuchadrezzar entity that HAD been furnishing the "captives" of Israel with Jehovah's loving protection and care were NOW (by means of a BROKEN holy covenant and the demonic invasion of Jehovah's "temple/sanctuary" that always results from it), holding them in a condition of both literal AND spiritual darkness and slavery. (Re 18:2) (1 Cor 3:16, 17)

The moment we are able to actually grasp what in reality are BASIC scriptural truths such as this, we will suddenly find ourselves also in a position to understand the symbolic spiritual language ones like the Apostle John are expressing in accounts like Revelation 11:8. By extension we will begin to appreciate that it is NOT the "great tribulation" that we should be currently anticipating, any more than we should be expecting the arrival of the "antichrist" or "disgusting thing" that always initiates it. (Da 11:30-32) (2 Th 2:1-8) (1 Joh 2:18) For the final foretold "time" we have ALREADY long been dealing with these "pangs of distress upon a pregnant woman" that begin the very MOMENT a holy marriage covenant is violated with spiritual adultery. (1 Th 5:3) It is the "bowl of the anger of God" or the "ARMAGEDDON" portion of these "great plagues" we should now be thinking in terms of! (Re 16:1, 16) We can ALREADY even at this very moment see the nations of the "kings of the ENTIRE INHABITED EARTH" beating the battle drums of this FINAL "plague" which is NOW more specifically in connection with the "EIGHTH king" foretold to appear at the END of the "seventh time" or "last trumpet." (Da 4:23, 32) (1 Cor 15:51-53) (Re 11:15 17:9-11) This great battle will end with ALL of these armies essentially being drowned in a figurative "Red Sea" of Jehovah's adverse judgments. So what exactly is it then that we are considering here in Revelation 11:8 in connection with YET ANOTHER foretold ministry of the "two witnesses." (Re 11:3) (The "sixth" in this case) (Re 9:13)


"And their corpses will be on the broad way of the great city that in a SPIRITUAL sense is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was also impaled." (Re11:8)


We realize of course that Jesus was "impaled" in JERUSALEM! not in Sodom NOR Egypt! Do we understand then what is being conveyed to us here in this symbolic spiritual language that permeates the ENTIRE Bible? Because if not we will only REMAIN completely confused over things like what was REPRESENTED as actually EXPERIENCING the "striking" or "death of the firstborn" in ancient Egypt. It was of course EGYPTIAN firstborn males that experienced the death blow associated with the opening portion of this final tenth plague. This is simply yet another of a seemingly endless stream of different ways that Jehovah THROUGHOUT his written word is helping the anointed "virgins" and "widows" of these broken marriage covenants to humbly recognize exactly WHY they are in desperate need of repentantly submitting themselves to the "fiery" spiritual cleansing coming fro the mouths of the "two witnesses" that almost without exception ALWAYS seems even "OFFENSIVE" to them. (Mal 3:2, 3) (1 Pe 2:8) (Mt 3:1, 2, 11)

Once again NOBODY and perhaps PARTICULARLY those among the anointed are inclined to appreciate coming to terms with the fact that another broken kingdom covenant and its corresponding demonic invasion EVEN of what was JEHOVAH'S very own earthly "sanctuary" has reduced them to something like a "leprous" foreign army chief or a "firstborn Sodomite" that is in DESPERATE need of a spiritual cleansing and rebirth, INCLUDING the "two witnesses." (2 Ki 5:1, 10, 14) This is despite the fact that EVEN THEY often identify themselves as spiritual "virgins," not even REALIZING this is an open admission that they are NOT "brides of the Lamb," but rather even spiritually "sleeping widows" desperately endeavoring to ATTEND the next foretold "marriage feast." (Mt 25:1, 2, 5, 10) (Re 21:9) (La 1:1, 4) (Isa 54:1-4) If we were ALREADY "born again Christians" as we are relentlessly programmed to believe by the "antichrist," we of course would not REQUIRE another foretold "birth" or "coming" of Jehovah's kingdom." This is exactly the point Paul is making in second Thessalonians even if somewhat in reverse since the kingdom actually EXISTED during the time that he was warning his brothers and sisters about the next foretold "apostasy." (2 Th 2:1-8)

You see If we were ALREADY "saved," then we of course would not NEED to climb aboard the "ark" or REBUILT "temple/sanctuariy" of Jehovah's protection that a RENEWED marriage covenant always furnishes us. (1 Cor 3:16, 17) (Mt 24:37) (Ro 15:4) It is a "great tribulation" for the anointed to genuinely come to terms with the teachings of Jehovah's prophets during these post-apostasy/pre-kingdom time frames, which is precisely why we find Jesus renewing the holy covenant with merely 11 people on the ENTIRE EARTH in 33 CE, or for that matter only SEVEN people climbing aboard the ark with the ancient Noah. (Mt 22:14 24:37) However these "pangs of distress" will PALE in comparison to the "judgment that is coming upon the whole inhabited earth" with the "CONCLUSION of A system of things" that always FOLLOWS a renewed kingdom covenant or opening portion of a final "tenth plague." (Re 3:10) (Mt 13:39) The ANIMALS that Noah and his family now ushered onto the ark were a symbolic representation of the "FLOCK" or "vast mixed company" of "OTHER sheep which are NOT OF this [shepherding] fold." (Mt 24:37) (Ex 12:38) (Joh 10:16) (Ro 15:4) Are the words found in accounts like Revelation 13:8 in yet another foretold setting of a spiritual "CONQUERING" of the "holy ones" beginning to take on new meaning for us? (Re 13:7, 8)

Just as we discover in scriptural accounts like Galatians 4:24-26, in a setting in which an act of spiritual adultery has once again VIOLATED the holy marriage "covenant" spoken of here in this very passage, this place "where our Lord was also impaled" spoken of in Revelation 11:8 is BY NO MEANS recognized by Jehovah as "Jerusalem," (which literally MEANS--foundation of two-fold peace and thus in of ITSELF points to this very "covenant" spoken of here in Galatians in an approved standing), but rather "in a SPIRITUAL sense "SODOM AND EGYPT." (Re 11:8) What we want to appreciate here is that in the case of the "two witnesses" who always arrive to RENEW these broken covenants, they actually ARE genuine "appointed" theocratic shepherds and by extension technically QUALIFY as genuine spiritual Jews or Christians along with ANY in fact that THEY are able to appoint as fellow ministers to the "LOST sheep of the house of Israel." (Mt 10:5, 6 24:45) (Joh 4:22) But if even THEY must now humbly and repentantly TAKE THE LEAD in accepting even FULL responsibility for all the spiritual sickness and death involved in a broken covenant so that by now serving as a kind of scapegoat all this "guiltiness" and spiritual "leprosy" may be REMOVED from the earth upon their being "crushed" and put to death "INSTEAD of you people" (as was pointed out to the REPENTANT and "DISCREET" "prostitute Rahab" by the "two spies" or "inspectors" of the "Promised Land"), then just what exactly would this imply for the anointed "virgins" and "widows" these "two witnesses" are always assigned to MINISTER to in these prophetic time frames? (Le 4:3, 10 16:20-22) (Isa 53:1-12) (Jos 2:1, 14) (Lu 19:44) Just how critical an issue would it really be for them to humbly and repentantly identify one of Jehovah's true prophets in these periods immediately prior to another "coming of the kingdom" and begin pay careful heed to all they have to say? (Mt 3:1, 2) (Joh 1:41) (Am 3:7) (Ro 15:4)

Up until this moment however we have basically been considering merely a PORTION of what actually comprises the "shepherd" that is always receiving a "chastising" or "striking" from Jehovah after it "falls" into spiritual "harlotry." (Le 26:18, 24) (Re 18:2) (Mt 26:31) In order for us to fully grasp and appreciate how all these things and more would ultimately amount to what is identified in the scriptures also as a "GREAT tribulation" would involve also coming to recognize the OTHER facets that exist of this "shepherd" that is always "chastised" during these times of national "apostasy." (Le 26:18) (Mt 26:31) Jehovah willing, let us by all means pick up the discussion on this particular point with my next post."

Agape love;
Sol

Get out of her
Posts: 1029
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Are we already experiencing the final foretold "Great Tribulation"?

#28 Post by Get out of her » 1 week ago

Regardless of whether we refer to these "seven" foretold "strikings/chastisings of the shepherd," as "great tribulations," "birth pangs" of a kind of "barren woman," "fiery" spiritual cleansings and rebirths or "baptisms" of a kind of spiritually 'leprous" and foreign army chieftain, etc; in order to genuinely grasp and appreciate what is being conveyed in the symbolisms of the final tenth plague of ancient Egypt and the events surrounding it or otherwise what is always the FINAL PORTION of a "great tribulation," there are at least a few very key things we would need to factor in and understand beforehand. (Mt 13:39) With that said we would all do very well to appreciate that EVERYTHING being covered in this scriptural discussion is in reality among the most FUNDAMENTAL of scriptural teachings, which aside from Jehovah's support is precisely why it is so easy for me to cite direct scriptural proof for EVERY point I am making here. It is simply that ALL OF US to some degree or other are suffering the devastating effects of the GREAT RIVER of "teachings and commands of MEN as doctrines" that ALWAYS begin to plague the ENTIRE EARTH the moment that a holy kingdom covenant is violated with spiritual "harlotry" on the part of the theocratic shepherds it is always formed with. (Mt 15:9) Once again the tremendous challenge of completely overcoming what is generally an entire LIFETIME of this false indoctrination by the time we reach this "tenth plague" is (once again) a very key PORTION of these "pangs of distress" or "fiery" "tribulations." (Mt 3:11) (Mal 3:2, 3) In view of this difficulty, let's by all means address these things.

In order to fully grasp what would make the "pangs of distress" involved in these "seven" foretold "births" of Jehovah's nation such a "great tribulation," we very much need to understand what this scriptural term—"shepherd" actually ENCOMPASSES in the prophetic time frames that it RECEIVES one of these "seven" foretold "strikings." (1 Th 5:3) (1 Sa 2:5) (Jer 15:9) (Le 26:24) Based on accounts such as Matthew 26:31 we realize of course that the "two witnesses" and to at least some extent the ones who "stick WITH THEM in the trials" they undergo in these ministries to the anointed "virgins" are always at least AMONG what experiences these foretold "strikings of the shepherd." (Lu 22:28, 29) At this point in time however (namely the times of the "tenth plague") at least momentarily that fact would actually now make this "shepherd" Jehovah speaks of here a rather massive FOUR PART entity.

Let's not forget that a renewed and inaugurated kingdom covenant between Jehovah and repentant ones among the anointed ALWAYS immediately results in the emergence of a NEW WORLD POWER, and even if that would prove be the long anticipated Millennial Reign! Moreover this NEW world power ALWAYS begins to IMMEDIATELY render what is now the FULL FORCE of Jehovah's adverse judgments on the one that preceded it and which had "fallen" into spiritual "harlotry" by means of adulterously violating the holy marriage covenant that MADE them this world power. (Da 5:26-28) What reason therefore would ANYONE have for imagining that a "great tribulation" would NOT be involved in all of this, and ESPECIALLY if this new world power would prove to be the Millennial Reign? But what exactly would qualify the "shepherd" that Jehovah always refers to as being "struck" in these prophetic time frames as actually a FOUR part entity at least initially or momentarily, and particularly in view of the fact that even when existing in a "STANDING" spiritual condition, (as opposed to a "fallen" one) this shepherding entity in the SETTING of the "appointed times of the nations" is always identified normally as a THREE part phenomenon. (Da 7:4) (Re 18:2) (Lu 21:24)

Once again we are now speaking specifically of what was being symbolized by the TENTH plague here. This means we are considering specifically the precise moment DURING a "great tribulation" NOT when Jehovah's prophets or "two witnesses" appear on the earth to begin their ministry and "inspection" of the anointed "virgins," (obviously pictured or typified with Moses and Aaron in this case), but rather the moment after they have FOUND genuinely repentant and "discreet" ones among them that they can now renew the broken kingdom covenant with. (Hag 1:12, 13) In other words we are dealing with precisely what Jesus himself foretold for future occasions in accounts like Matthew 25. (Mt 25:1, 2, 10) (Re 11:3) (Lu 19:44) (Jos 2:1) In this case the "marriage feast" that these spiritually "sleeping" "maidens" or "virgins" are desperately endeavoring to attend is being used to represent this renewed marriage covenant. (Mt 25:5) What this MEANS however is that the "shepherd" that has ALREADY at this point LONG been experiencing a "chastising" from Jehovah is now a CONGLOMERATE entity that will now receive not so much a "great tribulation," but more specifically what is always the most pivotal and decisive PART or even RESULT of these "birth pangs." What is more, while what are actually at this point very distinct PORTIONS of this "shepherd" will now actually receive the very SAME "striking," it will nonetheless be for entirely different reasons and with an entirely different OUTCOME.

You see while ALL of the "strikings" will now be comprised of LITERAL death blows as opposed to the mere trials and tribulations that always follow a SPIRITUAL death, the ones being experienced by Jehovah's prophets at this point will be for the purpose of "INAUGURATING" the holy marriage covenant that Jehovah just once again renewed with the "discreet virgins" THROUGH these prophets or "two witnesses." (He 9:16-18) (Lu 22:28, 29) (Hag 1:12, 13) However in THEIR case as opposed to landing them in the figurative "lake of fire" spoken of in Revelation 20:10, 14, 15, this "striking" will transform them into heavenly kings and priests along with their "leader." (Re 5:10) (Da 9:25)

It is absolutely INCREDIBLE just how much deception and confusion is "sown" throughout the earth by means of the spiritual adultery of Jehovah's appointed shepherding fold and the resulting overthrows or "conquerings" of his earthly "sanctuaries." (Hos 8:5) (Re 13:7) (Da 11:30-32) Just when exactly was it that Jehovah's covenant people were EVER presented or REPRESENTED to us as a mere religious persuasion or belief system? Even for many centuries PRIOR to the spiritual adultery of King Jehoiakim that triggered the start of the "appointed times" in which foreign kings would hold God's people in "captivity and exile," Israel was ALWAYS manifested as a NATION! (Jer 1:3) (He 8:5) (Ro 15:4) In fact even much more than that, while this theocratic nation of course HAD an organized form of worship or otherwise A religion, as long as it "KEPT the holy covenant" that QUALIFIED it as Israel (whether fleshy or spiritual) it would manifest itself as even the WORLD POWER of its day! (Ex 19:5, 6) (Ro 15:4) (He 8:5) (Ga 4:24-26)

What was it exactly that the ancient Moses or for that matter the "VIRGIN" or shepherd "BOY David" was pictured as "running away" from upon performing a kind of "flight to the wilderness" or "mountains." (Ex 2:15) (1 Sa 19:18) (Mt 24:15, 16) (Re 12:14) Was it perhaps merely from one of the numerous cults or religious persuasions of ancient Egypt that Moses performed an "exodus" from at the age of 40? But would this mean that when this "faithful town" would "BECOME a prostitute" with spiritual adultery that what was now an "APOSTATE nation" would not REMAIN a world power until the time that it would experience the outright destruction that ALWAYS eventually comes upon this "Great Harlot"? (Isa 1:21 10:6) Are we beginning to see the point here?

Regardless of what particular "birth of the barren woman" we are considering here, the "pangs of distress" involved with another foretold "coming of Jehovah's kingdom" ALWAYS includes not only "great plagues," but ultimately a COMPETE ANNIHILATION of an ENTIRE WORLD POWER that Jehovah now recognizes as a great spiritual "prostitute" and even a kind of "widow" due to the holy marriage covenant that she violated with spiritual adultery as well as the spiritual death or "sleep" that it ALSO results in. (Isa 1:21 54:1-4) (Re 17:1) (Hos 2:1, 2) (La 1:1) (Mt 25:5) Why would this NOT involve a "great tribulation" as well as ultimately even a "conclusion of a system of things" or "judgment that is coming upon the WHOLE INHABITED EARTH"! (Mt 13:39) (Re 3:10) Even in a "FALLEN" spiritual condition, when we are dealing with a WORLD POWER we are considering an entity that has a "kingdom OVER the kings of the earth." (Re 17:18) Among the things that this means however is that there are now SEVERAL facets or "parts" to the "shepherd" that is receiving the "chastising" and ultimately the "striking" spoken of in accounts like Leviticus 26:18, 24. (Mt 26:31) (Re 13:19)

Yes scriptural accounts such as here in Revelation 13:16 should help us to appreciate that even PRIOR to the arrival of the "two witnesses" or "son of man" towards the END of these "great tribulations," the "great city" that Jehovah NOW recognizes as a "Great Harlot" is already a THREE PART" entity that in turn points to THREE distinct shepherds, ALL of whom Jehovah considers as "despoiled," "useless" and "valueless" at this point. (Zec 11:2, 3, 8, 10, 15, 17) In fact Jehovah makes it clear that these three shepherds who often claim to even REPRESENT him in reality actually "LOATHE" him! (Zec 11:8) (Isa 29:13) (Mr 7:6) But why would they NOT pretend to represent him? Contrary to what we have always been led to believe, the word "antichrist" literally means—replacement or substitute spirit anointing, or otherwise exactly what is explicitly spelled out for us in accounts like Daniel 11:31 or 2 Thessalonians 2:4. (Strong's #273 #5547) We are dealing with a COUNTERFEIT Christ here at this point which in turn means counterfeit Christians or what the Apostle John identifies as even "MANY antichrists." (1 Joh 2:18) Even if the vast majority of these so called "Christians" are not even initially AWARE or have not yet "CAUGHT SIGHT" of what a broken kingdom covenant has just reduced them to, the WHOLE IDEA of a counterfeit is to appear as much like the genuine article as possible! (Mt 24:15, 16) The blissful ignorance of these now "useless shepherds" only serves to FURTHER Satan's deceptive agenda at this point! But who or what exactly are these "three shepherds" that will now continue to be "effaced" ALTOGETHER by Jehovah's adverse judgments? (Zec 11:8)

Well the fact that the "serpent" is always allowed to immediately occupy the "holy place" or "sanctuary" the moment the holy covenant is violated should already provide a major clue here. (Re 12:14) (Da 11:30-32) (2 Th 2:1-4) (Mt 24:15, 16) But let's not forget that it is always a "leaving of the holy covenant" on the part of a TRUE prophet of Jehovah that ALLOWS for a demonic occupation of the spiritual "temple." (1 Cor 3:16, 17) So already we can discern that at least TWO of the "three shepherds" that are once again in line for Jehovah's wrath would be the "dragon" along with what would NOW qualify as a "FALSE prophet." (Re 16:13) Once again however we are considering specifically the "SEVEN births" of Jehovah's nation that would unfold in connection with FOREIGN world powers or otherwise "captivity and EXILE" of Jehovah's people. So if what Jehovah had ALL ALONG represented or prophetically pictured as "beasts" would at least BEGIN as even AMONG the "anointed shepherds" that Jehovah would assign over his people upon a renewed covenant, then at least as long as they would remain in a "STANDING" condition with their "disgusting wings PLUCKED OUT" as opposed to even "growing like eagles feathers," they would of course be recognized as DOMESTICATED "beasts" as opposed to the 'WILD" ones "driven AWAY from mankind" spoken of now as the THIRD "part" or "shepherd" of this "three part great city." (Re 13:16, 19) (Da 4:33 7:4, 9:27) (Le 11:13) (Isa 44:28 45:1) (Isa 1:21)

You see Babylon the Great in a "STANDING" condition is comprised of Jehovah, a DOMESTICATED beast, and a TRUE prophet. (Isa 44:28 45:1) (Jer 25:9) In a "FALLEN" condition it now takes on MUCH LONGER name found at Revelation 17:5, and which is sometimes abbreviated to terms like "the great harlot," the son of destruction," man of lawlessness" or the "antichrist." It is now by means of a broken holy marriage covenant comprised of exactly what we find identified at Revelation 16:13. Even if in the case of the two prophets or shepherds that Jehovah actually "APPOINTS" in these prophetic time frames the "striking" they humbly and repentantly subject themselves to would be for the sake of bearing the COMMUNITY responsibility involved in all of this and thus be offering themselves also as a "COMMUNION sacrifice," nevertheless what will now be inflicted upon ALL the "shepherds" involved with adulterously crawling into bed with Jehovah's "woman" will obviously prove to be a "GREAT tribulation." (Mt 24:45) (Le 4:3, 10) This is so even if this divine "striking" can in some sense be summed up basically with the three Hebrew words found in Daniel 5:25-28.

But here is yet ANOTHER example of a seemingly endless STREAM of scriptures that upon ANY serious or prayerful contemplation should QUICKLY reveal that as is ALWAYS the case in these post-apostasy/pre-kingdom time frames, we have basically been taught NOTHING that genuinely comes anywhere NEAR the true teachings of Jehovah's word! With all the scriptural information in mind that I have just covered in these last three posts, let's now see if the account here in 1 Thessalonians 3:1-5 that we have long been associating with the concept of the "great tribulation" actually begins to MAKE SENSE to us. Have you like myself the entire time I was associated with the Watchtower organization not found this scripture rather confusing and mysterious when trying to reconcile it with everything we have always been led to believe or understand in connection with the "great tribulation" and "Armageddon"?

Now as for the times and the season's brothers, you need NOTHING to be written you. For you yourselves know quite well that Jehovah's day is coming as a thief in the night. Whenever it is they are saying: "Peace and security," then SUDDEN destruction is to be INSTANTLY upon them as pangs of distress upon a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape." (1 Th 5:1-3)


I'll insist that if we have been paying close and prayerful attention to all the scriptural information I have already covered in these last three posts, these words of Paul should now already make PERFECT sense to us. Nevertheless, Jehovah willing let's by all means pick up the discussion with this scriptural passage beginning with my next post. In the meantime I would as always warmly welcome comments, questions or observations on it from my dear bothers and sisters.

Agape love;
Sol

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