That post attempted an historical comparison between the trumpets of Rev 8-11 (especially trumpets 2-4) and the wild beasts of Rev 13, especially the one with the head wound and the two-horned lamb that follows, both of which occupy the main part of the chapter. What made the comparison possible was the apparent chronological ordering of both pericopes (Rev 8-11 & Rev 13) and the fact that both seemed to overlap each other, to an extent, historically. That is, they both appear to cover similar time periods in the Christian era.
Initially the reason for wanting to compare them was the fact that both pericopes (Rev 8-11 & 13) occupy corresponding positions in the proposed chiasmus of Revelation above (here). So this post represents a continuing effort to benefit from the chiastic structure of Revelation.
Revelation chapter 12 (which occupies the pivot point in the above chiasmus) also appears to have a chronological character to it. And much of it also overlaps the Christian era. So, theoretically at least, there should be some possibility of matching events described in chapter 12 with events or descriptions in chapters 8-11 & 13. That is the plan, at any rate.
This idea of matching or overlaying these chapters, especially chapters 12 & 13, has been of interest to me for many years. Unfortunately, much of that time my thinking was clouded with the 1914-centric view of history promoted by the WT. I've since learned that Jesus' parousia did not start in 1914 and that he began ruling much earlier than that (here), and that Satan was subsequently cast out of heaven in the 1st century (here).
I know some disagree with me on those things. And, of course, that is anyone's prerogative. But this post assumes those parameters as a foundation to the further conclusions reached herein. So, if you are in disagreement you might not find the rest of this post to be of interest to you. I mention that to save you some reading time for other things.
So what follows is an attempt to compare these chapters (Rev 8-11 & 12 & 13) in a way that places them in some sort of chronological order, with the idea of seeing what comes of it.
Verses . . . . . . Notes
Rev 12:1-3 . . . .Reminds of Gen 3:15 and introduces main characters (the woman and dragon).
Rev 12:4a . . . . Describes events of Gen 6:1-4 with defection of angels at Satan's prompting.
Rev 12:4b . . . . Describes efforts by Satan to prevent/destroy promised seed. (Patriarchal and later times.)
Rev 12:5 . . . . .Describes Jesus' 1st advent including ascension and enthronement. 33CE
Rev 12:6 . . . . .This appears to be what is also described in Rev 12:13-14. So will pick up after 12:7-12
Rev 8:7 . . . . . Trumpet 1. Heralds international preaching of good news (see link above & Mt 24:31)
Rev 12:7-12 . . .Describes war in heaven and casting out of Satan & demons.
Rev 8:8-9 . . . . Trumpet 2. Heralds casting out to earth of "rulers of this world."
. . . . . . . . . . . . See link above for quote on effects on world (esp. on Roman Empire)
Rev 12:13 . . . . Describes Satan persecuting "woman" after being cast out.
Rev 13:3-7 . . . .Describes persecution from Roman Empire, esp. starting in 64 CE; lasts "42 months."
Rev 8:10-11 . . . Trumpet 3. Rise of Christian ecclesiastical authority (MOL) & and poisoning of 'waters.'
Rev 12:6, 14 . . .In response, "woman" is carried into wilderness for "1260 days."
Rev 8:12 . . . . .Trumpet 4. Describing enlightenment era.
Rev 13:11-18 . . Describes rise of 7th world power, which "speaks like a dragon." (See here)
Rev 12:15-16 . . Satan disgorges flood to drown woman, but "the earth" swallows flood.
Rev 12:17 . . . . Dragon goes off to wage war. As if this is now his new strategy, given his failures up to now.
Rev 11:15-18 . . Trumpet 7. Day of judgment. Corresponding to "war" (Rev 12:17 leads to here: Rev 16:14, 16)
Ok, some observations of what I am seeing from this merger:
First, after Satan's casting out, two things happen: Persecution for "42 months." Then "the woman" is 'carried into the wilderness so as to be fed' for "1260 days." The trumpets portray: Trumpet 2=Satan's casting out, and Trumpet 3=Great Apostasy with poisoning of waters. Historically, there is official Roman persecution starting about 64 CE (Nero), and lasting to roughly Constantine's time. At which time (nominal) Christianity becomes the official state religion (or one of them).
So, one of the things I am thinking from this is that 'the woman being carried out into the wilderness corresponds with how Jesus fed his sheep during the time of the foretold Christian apostasy. (2Th 2:2-12; Compare Jn 10:9) The "wilderness" would appear to be describing Jesus' true disciples as being in smaller, non-mainstream groups. Mainstream Christianity had had its 'water supplies' poisoned per Trumpet 3. (Rev 8:10-11; For which see here, about halfway down.) So the link with the 'feeding in the wilderness' is the opposite or mirror image of the 'poisoned waters' of trumpet 3. This situation with the 'poisoned water supplies' requires some response from God and Christ per Mt 28:20.
Another thing I am getting from this is that the "42 months" (of persecution) and "1260 days" (of feeding in the wilderness) in these passages is symbolic (or 'presented as signs' per Rev 1:1). Combined they would represent the bulk of the Christian era.
Rome persecuted Christians for 2 to 3 centuries. And the era of rise of Christian ecclesiastical authority starts in the latter times of the Roman Empire, especially from Constantine (early 4th century), and extends for many centuries, mainly or generally, until the rise of democratic style powers, which corresponds roughly to the beginning of the enlightenment era. In effect, the two time periods ("42 months" & "1260 days") seem to represent an 'era within an era.' Protestantism arose to break some of the power of the Pope. But it also, to some extent, subsequently became part of mainstream, nominal Christianity.
At any rate, there is more mulling to do over this aspect. But it does appear that the merger of the three sections (Rev 8-11 & 12 & 13) does correspond with the general pattern of history as it has happened. Only, Revelation described it before it happened.
Another thing that I find interesting is that the WT has long sought to establish a line of true Christianity throughout the centuries of the great apostasy. I think they have pretty much given up trying. They were on the right track in thinking there were still true disciples of Christ throughout the centuries. But they had predetermined ideas on what beliefs would constitute this line. (Cmp Isa 11:3; Contrast 2Th 2:10) But if my historical lineup here is correct, then, Jehovah and Jesus were well prepared for the problem of the poisoned waters of the great apostasy.
Matthew 13:28-29 might also indicate that looking back to find an historical line of true worshipers during the great apostasy might well be impossible - at least from a human standpoint. (Compare also the 'hiddenness' of the yeast in the parable of the leaven. Mt 13:33 - for which see here; Mk 4:26-29 - for which see here.)
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