Chiasmus of Revelation

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Re: Chiasmus of Revelation

#61 Post by Bobcat » 4 months ago

Hi Doggo,

Yes!, there are riches to be mined here.

The deeper you dig into the Bible, you come to find that God's fingerprints are all over it.


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Re: Chiasmus of Revelation

#62 Post by Bobcat » 3 months ago

A very interesting PDF (six pages long) on Rev 1:19 linked to by poster ctron in this post.

On the influence of Exodus chapter 15 upon Revelation chapter 15, see the two linked references in note # 1 in this post.

A chiasm of Revelation with some similarities to the one in this thread: Here. And a Reddit AcademicBiblical thread where this is being discussed: Here.


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Re: Chiasmus of Revelation

#63 Post by Bobcat » 3 weeks ago

An experimental chiasm of line F^ (which features the seven headed wild beast) from the chiasm of Revelation found in post # 15 (here). And then following that, a comparison with line F. (which features the seven trumpets).

This is just exploratory in nature. I've not seen this any where else. (For that matter, I haven't seen the chiasm in post # 15 anywhere else either. But it does seem to work.) At poster Stranger's behest I was trying to see where the mark of the beast might fit within a literary arrangement of line F^ and then, in a comparison with line F.

For reference, the F lines of the chiasm are copied below. I won't be considering any of the Explanatory Asides portions in this post. (Although, I did slightly modify the Explanatory Aside part of line F. I have been meaning to modify that in post # 15 but the current software problems don't allow me to do that. The modification is in the fact that three voices speak in the passage about the seven thunders [Rev 10:1-11]. This matches nicely with the three angels who deliver messages in the corresponding part of line F^ [Rev 14:6-13].) The G. line was included just for positional reference within the larger chiastic structure.

Chiasm of Revelation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Explanatory Asides

F. Rev 8:2-11:19 (7 trumpets) . . . . . . . . . . . . . .Rev 10:1-11 & Rev 11:1-13 (3 Voices [7 Thunders] & 2 Witnesses)

. . . G. Rev 12:1-17 (PIVOT POINT - Synopsis of Conflict Between Woman/Seed & Serpent)

F^ Rev 13:1-14:5 (7 headed wild beast) . . . . . . . Rev 14:6-13 & Rev 14:14-20 (3 Angels & 2 Harvests)

What I tentatively came up with for line F^ was this (which is drawn from the five chiasms starting here):
A. The First Beast (Rev 13:1-5)

. . . B. Physical Persecution and the Need for Endurance (Rev 13:6-10)

. . . . . . C. The Second Beast (Rev 13:11-15)

. . . B^ Economic Pressure and the Need for Wisdom (Rev 13:16-18)

A^ The Lamb and 144,000 on Mount Zion (Rev 14:1-5)

At first, the arrangement above seems somewhat, not completely, but somewhat arbitrary, with the second beast filling in the pivot point. But a collation with this post on the trumpets makes for some interesting comparisons.

I'll copy the trumpet chiasm to here so one doesn't have to keep switching back and forth:
T1: Rev 8:7; Worldwide preaching, which includes warning of a judgment day. ("Hail"; Cmp Ac 17:30-31; Rev 11:19; 16:21)

....T2: Rev 8:8-9; Satan demons cast down with bad effect on 'sea' of mankind. (Rev 12:12; See on trumpet 2 here)

........T3: Rev 8:10-11; Star falls, poisons waters, related to apostasy of church and rise of MOL. (2Th 2:3-12)

................T4: Rev 8:12; Sun, moon, stars darkened, related to enlightenment era. (Dan 2:41; 7:8)

........T5: Rev 9:1-11; Plague on ecclesiastical authorities. (Rev 11:3-6; Here and here)

....T6: Rev 9:13-21; Plague on 'mankind' hoping to coax them to repent.

T7: Rev 11:15-19; Judgment Day. (Cmp with Rev 6:12-17; 16:17-21; 20:11-15)

In this structure T1 & T7 are related, T2 & T6 are related, T3 & T5 are related, and T4 forms the pivot point.

In a comparison of the two (and admittedly, not everyone will agree with the interpretation that is used), but there are some interesting points of comparison:
  • The pivot points in both are related: The Second Beast (which I understand as the Anglo-American Empire) and the Enlightenment Era in the trumpets chiasm (which corresponds to the time of the rule of the Anglo-American Empire).
  • The first and last lines of both have and interesting comparative nature: In the line F^ there is the wild beast out of the sea (which I understand to describe human governments that started around the time of the tower of Babel, but the wounded head of Rev 13:3-7 I understand to refer to the Roman Empire.) The last line of the F^ chiasm has the Lamb and the 144,000 upon Mount Zion, a sort-of divine governmental allusion.

    In comparison, T1 in the trumpets chiasm features the message that begins to be preached during the time of the Roman Empire. And the T7 line has 'the kingdom of the world becoming the kingdom of our Lord and his Christ.'
  • The B. portion of the F^ chiasm features official persecution by the wounded head of the beast. The T2 & T3 portions features the fall of Satan and the rise of the MOL. (Again, as I understand it.) These two parts could be easily understood to be related to persecution.
  • The B^ section of the F^ line chiasm features the mark of the beast and the need for wisdom. The T5 & T6 feature plagues upon the MOL and upon people in general. So that there might be some inverse comparative value between that and the B^ line.
  • The link to the trumpets chiasm also shows the chronological nature of the trumpets (based on how I was understanding their fulfillment). This would also correspond nicely with the chronological nature of the line F^ chiasm (again, as I am understanding it).

So at any rate, I'll leave it at that for now.


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Re: Chiasmus of Revelation

#64 Post by Stranger » 3 weeks ago

Bobcat wrote: 3 weeks ago At poster Stranger's behest I was trying to see where the mark of the beast might fit within a literary arrangement of line F^ and then, in a comparison with line F.
Very nice work Bobcat, I hope you didn't stay up all night on your appointed mission. I'm loving what I'm seeing here and will be looking at it more thoroughly as the new year is ushered in. I really thought it would take you at least a week, maybe two. I would venture to bet that the Romans would have been overjoyed to having you around during the construction of it (Rome), they quite possibly could have built it in a day with you there. :)

From what I've seen so far, It appears to be a fine pivot point with some issues to be addressed. I will be pressing those issues in the days to come. I wish I had more time at the moment to do so now but such is not the case.

In the words of H.W. Jr., that would apply to Bobcat : "I never back down and I love a good challenge".


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