Chiasmus of Revelation

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Bobcat
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Re: Chiasmus of Revelation

#51 Post by Bobcat » 2 years ago

On this post I made a comparison of the 7 trumpets from Rev 8-11 and the 7 bowls of Rev 15-16. The comparison looked like this:
Trumpets
. . Bowls

1. Earth (Rev 8:7)
. . Earth (Rev 16:1-2)

2. Sea (Rev 8:8-9)
. . Sea (Rev 16:3)

3. Rivers and fountains (Rev 8:10-11)
. . Rivers and fountains (Rev 16:4-7)

4. Sun, moon, stars (Rev 8:12)
. . Sun (Rev 16:8-9)

5. Darkness, pit, locusts (Rev 9:1-11)
. . Darkness on beast's throne( Rev 16:10-11)

6. Euphrates river (Rev 9:13-21)
. . Euphrates river (Rev 16:12-16)

7. Loud voices: Kingdom of world has become God's/Christ's (Rev 11:15-19)
. . Loud voice: It is finished! (Rev 16:17-21)
What I am focusing on in this post is the comparison between trumpet 7 and bowl 7. This is what I had:
7. Loud voices: kingdom of world has become God's/Christ's (Rev 11:15-19)
. . Loud voice: It is finished! (Rev 16:17-21)
I pointed out in the post that there was a similarity between the corresponding "targets" of each. But I had as "targets" for the 7th trumpet and bowl, "loud voice(s)." Obviously, there is something left to be desired in that conclusion!

In fact, the "target" for the 7th bowl is "the air." (Rev 16:17) This caught my attention when the public speaker at the KH read Eph 2:1-3. This was the moment a light went off in my head. (It also tells you where my mind is during public talks. :whistle: )

In Eph 2:2 Paul refers to "the ruler of the authority of the air." (NWT) The NET has, "the ruler of the domain of the air." A footnote (#6) at the word "domain" (here) says, "That is, “[place of] authority”; see BDAG 353 s.v. ἐξουσία 6."

BDAG (Bauers 3rd ed. Greek-English Lexicon) p. 353 gives as a gloss for ἐξουσία in Eph 2:2, "The sphere in which power is exercised." BDAG gives several other examples of this usage: Lk 4:6; 22:53; 23:7; Col 1:13.

In a similar vein, Hoehner's Ephesians, An Exegetical Commentary (Harold W. Hoehner, p. 312) says about ἐξουσία:
"Although some translate it in [Eph 2:2] as "power" or "authority," it is better translated as "domain" or "realm" (cf. Luke 22:53; 23:7; Col 1:13). The genitive of ἐξουσία is a genitive of subordination indicating that the devil is the ruler over the realm of the air."
Regarding the "air" in Eph 2:2, this same commentary says:
In the present context it is the place or sphere of the activity of the devil. It denotes both universality and location. . . in Paul's day the air was considered as "the dwelling place of the evil spirits."

. . . Therefore, the unregenerate not only walk according to the values of the present age but also under the control of the leader who rules over this evil world."
The upshot of all this is that "the air" in Eph 2:2 is, in effect, the location of its evil ruler, the devil. Which brings us back to Rev 16:17.

In Rev 16:17 the 7th bowl is poured out "into the air." A "voice" (God's) then says, "It is finished." Which is then followed by 'lightning, thunders and a tremendous earthquake.'

Similarly, at the 7th trumpet, "voices" announce that "the kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and His Christ." (Rev 11:15) This is followed in Rev 11:19 with 'lightning, thunder, and an earthquake and a great hailstorm.' (Compare also Rev 16:21)

Thus, the 7th trumpet announces the end of Satan's rule. And the 7th bowl also has the domain of Satan, "the air," as its target. So I changed the comparison of the 7th trumpet and bowl to this:
7. Kingdom of world becomes God's/Christ's (Rev 11:15-19; The end of Gentile Times which started at Tower of Babel.)
. . Poured out on the "air" (Eph 2:2, the domain of Satan; Rev 16:17-21)
As an interesting extra related to the trumpets, see this article on Yom Teruah and The Seventh Trumpet on the BP site.


Bobcat

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Bobcat
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Re: Chiasmus of Revelation

#52 Post by Bobcat » 2 years ago

This post is focusing on the "explanatory asides" in the "F^" section, or Rev 14:6-13. (See this post for the full chiasm of Revelation.):
Chiasm of Revelation . . . . . Explanatory Asides

. F^ Rev 13:1-14:5 . . . . . . . . Rev 14:6-13 & Rev 14:14-20
. .These portions are being examined: └───┘. . . . └────┘

Rev 14:6-13 is a string of three messages by three separate angels, with the third angel followed by "a voice from heaven." The passage breaks down thusly:
Rev 14:6-7 An angel flying in mid-heaven and having everlasting good news to declare.

Rev 14:8 A second angel saying that Babylon the Great has fallen.

Rev 14:9-12 A third angel has a warning for anyone worshiping the beast or receiving the mark of the beast.

Rev 14:13 A voice from heaven states that those who die in union with the Lord 'from this time on' are happy/blessed.

It is the words of the third angel that have a chiastic structure (from this blog):
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice,

A. “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,

. . . B. 10 he will drink of wine of wrath of God, which is mixed full strength in the cup of His anger;

. . . . . . C. and he will be tormented

. . . . . . . . . D. with fire and brimstone

. . . . . . . . . . . . E. in the presence of the holy angels

. . . . . . . . . . . . E^ and in the presence of the Lamb.

. . . . . . . . . D^ 11 “And the smoke [Comment: the smoke comes from the fire and brimstone]

. . . . . . C^ of their torment goes up forever and ever;

. . . B^ they have no rest day and night [Comment: the torment is full strength: i.e., no breaks; day and night],

A^ those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Note: Where the quoted portion has, "Comment: . . .," these are the comments of blogger L J Hooge trying to explain the relationship of one portion of the chiasm with its complement.


And what follows below is a proposed parallel structure to the two harvests of Rev 14:14-20 -
A. One like Son of Man, on cloud and having crown and sickle (Rev 14:14)

. . . B. Angel from Temple, with loud voice, says thrust in your sickle, earth is ripe (Rev 14:15)

. . . . . . C. One on cloud thrust in sickle, earth is reaped (Rev 14:16)

A^Another angel out of Temple, has sharp sickle (Rev 14:17)

. . . B^Angel from Altar, Says thrust in sickle, gather vine of earth, it is ripe (Rev 14:18)

. . . . . . C^ Angel thrusts in sickle, grapes gathered and trodden, blood runs 200 furlongs (Rev 14:19-20)

Note: there is an obvious parallel between the two harvests but there are also some asymmetries – the first reaper is “one like the son of man” but the second is “another angel”. The angel that instructs the first to reap comes from out of the temple, whilst the second comes from under the altar.

Bobcat

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Dajo1
Posts: 350
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Re: Chiasmus of Revelation

#53 Post by Dajo1 » 2 years ago

Just fiddling around here on this rainy Saturday.. been wondering if there is a Chiasmus type pattern between Genesis and Revelation.

GENESIS
A Creation ch 1&2
B Enemy within ch 3
C Fall ch 3
D Plan ch 3:15
E Badness / Neph
F Flood declared
G Flood ch 6&7
H Babylon confused lang
I?
J?
K?
J?
I?
H Nations united (internet)??
G Tribulation
F Woes ch 6
E War in heaven ch 12
D Chaos
C Raised
B Enemy gone ch 20
A Recreation ch 21
REVELATION

Bobcat
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Re: Chiasmus of Revelation

#54 Post by Bobcat » 2 years ago

Hi Dajo,

For some reason I missed your post above. It is good (IMO) to fiddle around with ideas. Here is an attempt from the Biblical Chiasm Exchange to wrap the end of Revelation to the beginning of Genesis. Look also at the comments towards the bottom.

On another note, I added a link to the bottom of this post above. The link is to related material on the BP site.


Wishing you well,
Bobcat

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Bobcat
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Re: Chiasmus of Revelation

#55 Post by Bobcat » 1 year ago

Linking a thread on the origin of the word Armageddon for reference purposes: Here.


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Bobcat
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Re: Chiasmus of Revelation

#56 Post by Bobcat » 6 months ago

Links to various aspects of Revelation:
1. Cross-linking to a post that analyzes all occurrences of the "book of life" in Revelation: Here.

2. This thread is on the topic of Revelation 1:10 and the phrase, "the Lord's day."

3. A thread on the horns and heads on the beast of Rev 13:1: Here.

4. On the angels of the congregations in Rev 2 & 3 see this post for reference material.

5. On the idea of a 'hailstone message' derived from Rev 16:21, see this post and included links.

6. Regarding Rev 6:8 and its fulfillment: Here.

7. Regarding Rev 13:17 and its possible fulfillment: Here.

8. A thread discussion (off-site) concerning Rev 20:5 and evidence for its belonging in Revelation: Here. But see post # 58 just below. A chiastic arrangement to Rev 19:6-20:15 helps to place Rev 20:5. It becomes equivalent to Rev 20:12-13.

Bobcat

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Bobcat
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Re: Chiasmus of Revelation - Rev 19:6-20:15

#57 Post by Bobcat » 3 weeks ago

Introduction:

Below is a proposed chiastic arrangement encompassing from Rev 19:6 to Rev 20:15. This is the entire "D^" line from the chiasm of Revelation here.

The entire passage (Rev 19:6-20:15) breaks down into three distinct portions:
(1) The marriage of the Lamb and his wife, including the marriage feast (Rev 19:6-21),

(2) The 1000 year rule of the Lamb & wife (Rev 20:4-6), including what happens just before (Rev 20:1-3) and just after (Rev 20:7-10), and

(3) A synopsis of the entirety of Judgment Day, that is, the entire passage of Rev 19:6-20:10, but from God's viewpoint.

In effect, the third chiasm encompasses or summarizes the first two. Seeing it this way helps solve some of the, otherwise, difficult phrasing that is used (e.g. Rev 20:5).


The Chiastic Structures in the Passage:
Marriage Banquet of Lamb and Wife (Rev 19:6-21)

A. Happy are those invited to marriage of Lamb (Rev 19:6-10)

│ . . . B. Description of the Groom (Rev 19:11-16)

A^ Fate of those not invited (Rev 19:17-21)
+
Millennial Rule of Lamb and Wife (Rev 20:1-10)

│ A. Just before the Millennium (Rev 20:1-3)

│ . . . B. Rule of Christ and wife for Millennium (Rev 20:4-6)

A^ Just after the Millennium (Rev 20:7-10)
=
Judgment Day From God's Perspective (Rev 20:11-15)

A. One seated on throne; Earth & heaven fled from Him (Rev 20:11)
│ . . . .Removal of previous age prepares for Millennium

│ . . . B. The dead raised & before throne and judged (Rev 20:12-13)
│ . . . . . . . Judgment Day during the Millennium

A^ Death & Hades removed, along with anyone not in book (Rev 20:14-15)
└ . . . . Results by the end of Judgment Day

Some Observations:
1. When seen this way (that is, as above), the battle or war of Armageddon (Rev 19:17-21) becomes the figurative wedding feast. (Compare Rev 19:17-18) It also equates with 'the earth and heaven fleeing from God' in Rev 20:11.

2. See this thread for some thoughts concerning who is being referred to in Rev 20:4.

3. See this thread and this post regarding the scrolls that get opened in Rev 20:12.

4. Regarding "Gog and Magog" being equated with "those nations ..." (Rev 20:8): See here and included links.

5. There is some more minor chiastic arrangement within each of the lines of the chiasms above. But I didn't want to clutter the landscape, so-to-speak. I'll tend to those details in another post.

6. The events of Rev 19:17-21 are paralleled in the events of Rev 16:20-21 & 6:14-17. Where Rev 19:19-20 = Rev 16:20 & 6:14. And Rev 19:21 = Rev 16:21 & 6:15-17. (Notice how "islands" & "mountains" are reversed in order between Rev 6:14 & 16:20.) (Regarding a supposed "hailstone message" in Rev 16:21, see the links in this post.) (On the use of a rhetorical device known as polysyndeton in Rev 16:19-21, see this post.)

7. The statement about "the rest of the dead" not 'coming to life until the 1000 years were finished' would seem to be paralleled in Rev 20:12-15. "The rest of the dead" would be all those not included in Rev 20:4, 6. This would coincide with what Jesus said in Jn 5:24-27. The one putting faith in Jesus is exempted from judgment. This would also argue that those referred to in Rev 20:4, 6 include more than just the 144,000. (For which, see the link in note # 2 above.) In effect, Jn 5:24-25 helps explain Rev 20:4, 6. And Jn 5:28-29 helps explain Rev 20:5, 12-13.

8. See this post, and especially the links in Additional Note # 1 regarding the events that happen before the marriage of the Lamb in Rev 19:6-21. these would be the three events listed in Rev 16:19, which also find their parallel in Rev 6:12-13.

9. Post # 56 in this thread (which is the post just before this one) has additional links to Revelation related topics.

10. On the post Millennial test (Rev 20:7-10) and similarities with the pre-flood world, see Additional Note # 2 in this post.

11. See link # 1 in post # 58 just below. The link displays an experimental chiasm of the 7th rest day. Lines "C^" & "B^" in the proposed chiasm are generally parallel with the portion of Revelation discussed in this post (Rev 19:6-20:15).

Bobcat

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Bobcat
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Re: Chiasmus of Revelation

#58 Post by Bobcat » 3 weeks ago

Hi Dajo,

This is just a belated response to your post # 53 above (here) regarding fiddling with ideas about a super-chiasmus to history.

Below are some links that are related idea-wise:
1. A speculative chiastic structure to the entire 7th rest day: See here and included links.

2. See my comments just below the chiasm of the Babel account (here). The comments reflect on the idea of history repeating itself in some ways.

3. See this post (and the very next one) regarding patterns in the Genesis accounts.

4. On the use of Toledoth as an account marker in Genesis: Here. And compare with this post.

5. Repeating history in Genesis chapters 1 thru 11: Here.

6. This post has a link to similarities between the account of Noah and the account of Lot.

These links are not all specifically on what you were musing about. Probably the first link above is closest idea-wise. But I thought making them easily available might help in the brain-storming process of what you were looking at.


Bobcat

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Bobcat
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Re: Chiasmus of Revelation

#59 Post by Bobcat » 3 weeks ago

For any interested, I added a 10th & 11th point in the Some Observations section at the bottom of this post above. I also added a bit to the 7th point in connection with Jn 5:24-26, 28-29.

I ran out of links for my post above. So, I'll put a link here: There is a subtle connection between Jn 5:25 and the valley of dry bones in Ezek 37, for which see posts # 6 thru 9 starting here. Thus, if Jn 5:25 is related to Rev 20:4, 6, then, Ezekiel's vision in Ezek 37 is also related to Rev 20:4, 6, at least to some extent.

My intention with the observations is to tie together various related posts.


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FriendlyDoggo
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Re: Chiasmus of Revelation

#60 Post by FriendlyDoggo » 3 weeks ago

Hello Bobcat, I just want to thank you by this Chiasmus Series, everytime I try to read my reaction is "what!?" I mean, how the dots connect and it make sense, it's just amazing.
My english isn't very good, sorry any inconvenience.

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