When Is Satan Cast Down To Earth?

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Bobcat
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Re: When Is Satan Cast Down To Earth?

#11 Post by Bobcat » 2 months ago

Cross-linking with a thread on WHY Satan is still around: Here.


Bobcat

ctron
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Re: When Is Satan Cast Down To Earth?

#12 Post by ctron » 1 week ago

Wouldn't 1 Peter 3:19 also point to the 1st century?

ctron

Kerry Huish
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Re: When Is Satan Cast Down To Earth?

#13 Post by Kerry Huish » 1 week ago

According to Revelation 13, Satan is cast down to the earth after the 7th head has manifested itself and before the image of the wild beast is created.

Revelation 13:1, 2 And it stood still upon the sand of the sea. And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and upon its horns ten diadems, but upon its heads blasphemous names. Now the wild beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were as those of a bear, and its mouth was as a lion’s mouth. And the dragon gave to [the beast] its power and its throne and great authority.

At the time of John receiving the revelation, (around 90CE?) this 7th head had not yet arrived.

Revelation 17:9, 10 “Here is where the intelligence that has wisdom comes in: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. And there are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet arrived, but when he does arrive he must remain a short while.

For me, this rules out Satan being cast out in the 1st century.

I currently believe it was around 1912-17 that he was ousted.

Kind Regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

Kerry Huish
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Re: When Is Satan Cast Down To Earth?

#14 Post by Kerry Huish » 1 week ago

Another 'deeper' thought on why Satan was not ousted in the 1st century...

Satan appoints Demon Princes on the earth to oversee matters here, while he rules over them ALL from heaven.

Dynasties and Kingdoms each have a Demon Prince, they all fight each other for the right to control the world.

This can be seen from considering Daniel 10: -

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the royal realm of Persia was standing in opposition to me for twenty-one days, and, look! Miʹcha·el, one of the foremost princes, came to help me; and I, for my part, remained there beside the kings of Persia.

Daniel 10:20 So he went on to say: “Do you really know why I have come to you? And now I shall go back to fight with the prince of Persia. When I am going forth, look! also the prince of Greece is coming.

What is conclusive is that this 7th head had not yet arrived at the time that John received the Revelation, around 90CE.

So IF Satan was cast down to earth in the 1st century, at the time of the 6th head, ROME, then Satan would have supplanted the demon ruler who was then overseeing the whole earth at the time - Satan would have sat down in his seat as world ruler.

This would have been like a head receiving a sword stroke, but instead of being replaced by another head, the damaged head recovered.

The wild beast is like a 'body' or 'host' that has been prepared for Satan, it is his image.

Anyway, fast forward to a time when the 7th head arrives and replaces the 6th...

In having a basic understanding of 'how' Satans system works, then this would just not work if Satan had already sat down in the place of the 6th head, otherwise he would need to subject to the new (7th) ruling demon entity, but the tail does not wag the dog...

When Satan is cast down, all future skirmishes for control need to be suspended as another demon cannot subjugate or supplant Satan, attempts would damage and drain the system.

Luke 11:18...if Satan is also divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand?...

Hence the need to create an image of the beast after Satans arrival.

This is further reason to consider that Satan was not cast down until after the 7th head had manifested itself with its appointed demon overseer firmly set in place.

Satans 'short' period of time coincides with the 'short' while of 7th head.

Revelation 12:12 On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.”

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet arrived, but when he does arrive he must remain a short while.

Kind Regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

Bobcat
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Re: When Is Satan Cast Down To Earth?

#15 Post by Bobcat » 1 week ago

Kerry, I am seeing you quote scriptures, but a lot of your added commentary is just your assertions about what those verses are saying.

For example, you say Satan appoints demon princes to each of these kingdoms and that they fight amongst each other.

Daniel only refers to the "Prince of the royal realm of Persia" and a 'coming Prince of Greece.' I would agree that the context implies that these are spirits and that they are opposed to good angels. But where are you getting this idea that they are demons under Satan, and not Satan himself? That is nothing more than an assumption. And that they fight against each other? Mt 12:26 would imply that they cooperate with each other.

You've built a whole argument based on assumptions and assertion.


Bobcat

Kerry Huish
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Re: When Is Satan Cast Down To Earth?

#16 Post by Kerry Huish » 1 week ago

This is just my view - YMMV - lol

But all the same, Revelation 13 shows Satans complete system standing before him after being confined to the earth.

For this reason, I cannot accept a 1st century application for his ousting.

Kind Regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

Bobcat
Posts: 3813
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: When Is Satan Cast Down To Earth?

#17 Post by Bobcat » 1 week ago

I understand.


Bobcat

investigate
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Re: When Is Satan Cast Down To Earth?

#18 Post by investigate » 1 week ago

The first time I read Revelation start to finish I also thought Rev 12 could have been in the 1st century. Read a very interesting commentary (and I think someone else mentioned it here somewhere), that as Revelation is bathed in Jewish imagery, those reading it would have recognized the woman as Israel (Genesis 37:9). This would also explain the intense persecution the 1st century Christians experienced.

I was thinking this morning, there could be a couple fulfillments of the 1,260 days. One may be that it represents the end of Daniel 9:26, 27 (Messiah cut off in middle of week). Another may be that 1,260 is compared with 42 months frequently, this might be a stretch but 33 CE + 42 = 75, which is so very close to the fall of Masada. (or even 29 CE + 42 = 71). Israel was a nation for that period even though the King was born. Doesn't line up exactly but interesting nonetheless.

Of course, there is a good point as well in that Satan knows he has a "short period of time" after being cast out. The context is also suspicious coming right after Revelation 11. If so, persecution will be very intense in the future.

Bobcat
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Re: When Is Satan Cast Down To Earth?

#19 Post by Bobcat » 1 week ago

Hi ctron,

1Pe 3:19 is interesting. It indicates that the spirits were already in prison when Jesus was resurrected and preached to them. 1Pe 3:20 relates their imprisoning to disobedience in the days of Noah. (Gen 6:1-4)

2Pe 2:4, 5 has a similar setting for their disobedience (Deluge era) and describes their prison as "chains of dense darkness." Jude 6 describes this as "reserved with eternal bonds in dense darkness." Both these verses indicate that they remain in this state until judgment day. This would indicate to me that the "chains or dense darkness" is a condition that began for them around the time of the Deluge and continue until judgment day. So that, in itself, these 'chains' are not a reference to Satan's (and his demons) being cast out of heaven.

In the case of Satan himself, Gen 3:14 would indicate to me that his personal 'darkened' state began after his rebellion in the garden. And thus, Satan already received a message of judgment back then. (Gen 3:14, 15) This would explain why the judgment message of 1Pe 3:19 was directed against the spirits that sinned in the days of the Deluge.

I could see where it is possible that Jesus' preaching a judgment message to the spirits (post resurrection) describes how the war in heaven broke out. With the preaching of 1Pe 3:19 leading to, or being the catalyst for, the war in Rev 12:7. (And for which see comments and references in this post.)

The wording of Rev 12:7 is interesting in this regard: "And war broke out in heaven." It says this first before mentioning the combatants. Then it says that "Micheal and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled." The wording doesn't specifically emphasize who initiated the war. I could see from this where the judging of the world (Jn 12:31) and the judging of the demons (1Pe 3:19), all the parts of the devil's organization (and all related to Jesus being sacrificed in Jn 12:32 and "caught away to God's throne" in Rev 12:5), would result in 'the outbreak of war in heaven.' There was nothing left for Satan and his demons to argue about. A condemnatory judgment against them and his world had already been rendered.

Rev 12:8 (NWT) also says that "they (Satan and his demons) did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven." Regarding the last phrase of this verse, Constable's Notes comments:
In John’s vision Satan’s forces proved weaker, and God threw them out of heaven. Consequently Satan no longer had access to heaven (cf. 20:11; Job 1—2; Dan. 2:35; Zech. 10:10). God will no longer hear Satan’s accusations against believers.

This thought about God no longer being willing to hear Satan's accusations corresponds with what Paul said at Rom 8:31-34 and Col 1:21, 22, which was commented on in the OP of this thread.

All this depends, of course, on the "child" of Rev 12:5 being Jesus (as I argue here and here.) But I believe the points above provide a good basis for thinking this is correct. (Compare also Jn 14:28, 29, 30 and how the Devil no longer had a hold on Jesus. Compare this with my point about the verb "caught away" in my post here.)

As pointed out in the OP (here), Jesus' statement at Jn 12:31, 32 as well as Jn 16:11 provide, to me at least, solid evidence that Satan's being cast out was soon to occur (on or after 33 CE) and that it was closely related to Jesus being put to death (and glorified afterwards), which would match up closely with seeing the child of Rev 12:5 as Jesus, and with him ruling afterwards ("caught away to God's throne"), and as argued in this post. Jn 12:31 would give a good reason for why Jesus would afterwards preach a judgment message to the demons. Note, by the way, that in Jn 12:31 it is the world being judged. But the end result is that its ruler is to be cast out. But Jn 16:11 would also seem to indicate that Satan is judged as the ruler of the world that gets judged.

Edited to add: The following two links also have some related discussion (with numerous links) as in this post: This post on the preflood era. And this one on the spirits in prison.


Bobcat

Kerry Huish
Posts: 410
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: When Is Satan Cast Down To Earth?

#20 Post by Kerry Huish » 1 week ago

Is there any other vision in Revelation where John was shown a vision of something that had already happened?

Kind Regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

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