The Gentile Times . . . Reconsidered

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Bobcat
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Re: The Gentile Times . . . Reconsidered

#191 Post by Bobcat » 7 months ago

Hi Stranger,

Hope you are doing well. The wife and I are still coronavirus free. So are the children and grand, so far. And I am still working.

Sorry for the delay in my response. On the tentative point you asked about:

If I understood it right, it would be the idea that the rebellion and eviction from the garden would equate with the cutting down of the tree.

My short answer would be no, I wouldn't see it that way. But I need to qualify and explain that.

The major thrust of the thread was the idea that, as a prophetic drama, Daniel chapter 4 is depicting Satan's grant of rulership, by God, over humans. (Lu 4:5, 6; Rom 13:1) The grant is of limited duration ("seven times"), and, from God's point of view, it would lead to the conclusion that only "the Most High" was capable of successfully ruling over them (with Jesus being a capable appointed king due to his being just like his Father). (Dan 4:16, 17) No doubt, Satan thought he was more than capable for the challenge of ruling over puny humans. (Ezek 28:17; 1Ti 3:6 NIV)

Satan's claim in Lu 4:6 is that the kingdoms of the world were "delivered to him" (or "handed over"). Similarly, Rev 13:1, 2 has the devil giving power and authority to a beast that rises out of the sea. The idea I am seeing from these is that human rulership appears and then it is handed over to Satan. That necessarily requires a post-flood 'deliverance' since, going by the Bible, human kingdoms don't appear until after the flood.

Article 5 in this thread (see Index below) was purposed to show that Jehovah prevented the development of complex human civilisation prior to the flood. And He did so for the purpose of testing the angels. That leaves only the post flood era. And the link between the appearance of human kingdoms and the Tower of Babel incident makes the most sense (to me) as the point at which Jehovah makes the human kingdom builders vulnerable to satanic take over.

It's not that sinful humans hadn't already been affected by Satan. But that doesn't rate the same as Satan's claim to have had authority over human kingdoms "delivered" to him. The division of humans at the Tower made them weaker and vulnerable to manipulation (just as division within this country is doing to the USA).

At any rate, that was the reasoning that went into that point. The "seven times" (I argued) equated with the run of seven world powers. The details of which you can find in the main articles listed in the Index.

I hope that answers to why I saw it that way.


Bobcat

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Stranger
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Re: The Gentile Times . . . Reconsidered

#192 Post by Stranger » 6 months ago

Bobcat wrote:
7 months ago
Hope you are doing well. The wife and I are still coronavirus free. So are the children and grand, so far. And I am still working.

Sorry for the delay in my response. On the tentative point you asked about:
Hi Bobcat,

So far so good my Brother, very good to know you and your family are staying healthy. The still working part didn't sound that great to me as I know the feeling all to well, but as long as I'm able, my chair's gonna be filled at the supper table. It's been said, when one stops one drops, I hope he tended to the Lord's crops.

Hey I wanted to ask you if you meant the first or second definition of tentative?
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CH ... tative+def
Bobcat wrote:
7 months ago
If I understood it right, it would be the idea that the rebellion and eviction from the garden would equate with the cutting down of the tree.
That was the thought I had, so yes you did.

Bobcat wrote:
7 months ago
At any rate, that was the reasoning that went into that point. The "seven times" (I argued) equated with the run of seven world powers. The details of which you can find in the main articles listed in the Index.

I hope that answers to why I saw it that way.
If I've got it right, you are saying the "seven times" started when the tower of Babel was destroyed and languages were confounded. Then is when the building of many nations begun and actually many began to be destroyed. But before that it was "one nation under God" so to speak. (Gen 11:1,6)


Stranger, (Deut 7:1,2)

Bobcat
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Re: The Gentile Times . . . Reconsidered

#193 Post by Bobcat » 6 months ago

If I've got it right, you are saying the "seven times" started when the tower of Babel was destroyed and languages were confounded. Then is when the building of many nations begun and actually many began to be destroyed. But before that it was "one nation under God" so to speak. (Gen 11:1,6)

More specifically, it is only after the confusion of the languages at the Tower of Babel that the first of the Biblical world powers appears (Egypt). This corresponds with Rev 13:1, 2 where the dragon gives to the beast "great authority." The confusion of the languages by God would correspond with Him handing/delivering authority over human kingdoms to Satan. So the Tower of Babel event would serve as a handy point of reference for the start of the "seven times."

The sounding of the seventh trumpet at Rev 11:15 would mark the end of those seven times. I am thinking that the change from the 7th to the 8th world power happens after or in conjunction with this 7th trumpet. It is interesting that Revelation describes this change as being initiated by God. (Rev 17:10, 11, 16, 17; Compare Dan 7:25, 26 where it is God who removes the rulership or dominion of the 11th horn [the 7th world power] in preparation for his being destroyed)

The 3 1/2 times of Dan 7:25 would appear to be the last period leading up to the removal of the dominion of the 7th world power. From what I researched about Dan 8:14; 12:7, 11, 12 I am led to think that the 3 1/2 times of Dan 7:25 is an actual 42 month time period. (Compare the links in points 6 thru 8 in this post.) At least that is where I am at right now. (See this post.)

The 7th world power has historically been comparatively less brutal towards Christianity compared to Rome. (Compare "wear out" or "harass" in Dan 7:25a) So I am thinking that this final 42 months of the reign of the 7th gives God the plain evidence to be used in removing its dominion or world rulership. The political upheaval that seems to be evolving in the US at the present had me wondering if the start of that 42 months might be near.


Bobcat

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Bobcat
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Re: The Gentile Times . . . Reconsidered

#194 Post by Bobcat » 3 months ago

Poster lynchpin posted a link to a web page on climate destruction. The link to the article can be found in this post.

I also added this post to the index for this thread (linked to below) on the line labeled Climate Change/Damage. The linked climate article is also related to main article # 7 in the Index below.


Bobcat

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Bobcat
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Re: The Gentile Times . . . Reconsidered

#195 Post by Bobcat » 3 months ago

Interesting article in Discover magazine on who built the pyramids: Here.


Bobcat

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Victor
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Re: The Gentile Times . . . Reconsidered

#196 Post by Victor » 3 months ago

Bobcat wrote:
3 months ago
Interesting article in Discover magazine on who built the pyramids: Here.


Bobcat
From the magazine:
"In fact, archaeologists have never found evidence for the Biblical tales that the Israeli people were imprisoned in Egypt. And even if the Jewish people were imprisoned in Egypt, it’s extremely unlikely that they would have built the pyramids. The last pyramid, the so-called Pyramid of Ahmose, was built roughly 3,500 years ago. That’s hundreds of years before historians think the Israeli people first appeared. It’s also centuries before the oldest known Egyptian reference to the Jews on the Victory Stele of Merneptah.

So, while archaeologists still have much to learn about the people who built the pyramids and how the work was organized and executed, it is easy to throw out this basic misconception. The pyramids were built by Egyptians."
As it has always been with the world what the Bible says is irrelevant and continues to be while proving lie to be a lie makes for a superior view of themselves.

(Exodus 1:13, 14) 13 Consequently the Egyptians made the sons of Israel slave under tyranny. 14 And they kept making their life bitter with hard slavery at clay mortar and bricks and with every form of slavery in the field, yes, every form of slavery of theirs in which they used them as slaves under tyranny.

(Exodus 5:6-8) 6 Immediately on that day Pharʹaoh commanded those who drove the people to work and their officers, saying: 7 “YOU must not gather straw to give to the people to make bricks as formerly. Let them themselves go and gather straw for themselves. 8 Moreover, the required amount of bricks that they were making formerly, YOU will further impose upon them. . . .

(Exodus 5:13, 14) . . .And those who drove them to work kept urging them, saying: “Finish YOUR works, each one his work, day for day, just as when straw was available.” 14 Later on the officers of the sons of Israel, whom Pharʹaoh’s taskmasters had set over them, were beaten, these saying: “Why is it YOU did not finish YOUR prescribed task in making bricks as formerly, both yesterday and today?

Bricks, they made bricks with straw that is what the Bible says not stone buildings. The article unintentionally proves the Biblical text.

Bobcat
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Re: The Gentile Times . . . Reconsidered

#197 Post by Bobcat » 3 months ago

Hi Victor,

My main purpose for citing that article was in the 1st two paragraphs of it. This was in relation to discussions we have had here before you became a poster, regarding who and how the pyramids were built and whether any of them survived the great flood.

I think you will find that most here, if not all, including myself, believe the Bible's account of the Israelite's in Egypt.

Based on the approximate dating of the pyramids (see here), and the possible date range after Joseph's death (1590 BCE [Joseph's death] to 1446 BCE [the Exodus]) during which part of that time the Israelites spent in slavery (compare here), there is only one possible pyramid that the Jews could have been making bricks for (the pyramid of Ahmose). Although, I kind of doubt that they made bricks for pyramids (except for maybe 'finishing' type of work). Most of the blocks used for the main structure of pyramids were likely cut at quarries.

I accept that Egyptian dating is problematic, but, going by the dating on this page, the Hyksos, who were friendly with Joseph and Israel, were ousted in c. 1542 BCE. Assuming a 1446 BCE exodus (your mileage may vary), but assuming 1446 this would leave the time for Israel's hard slavery in Egypt to sometime after 1542 BCE until 1446 BCE when they left.

The dating for the pyramid of Ahmose is approximate (c 1550 BCE), so it is possible that Israel's brick making played some part in that. But it would be hard to be dogmatic about it.

If you follow the link to the Index of this thread you will find post numbers that relate to the pyramids.


Bobcat

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Victor
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Re: The Gentile Times . . . Reconsidered

#198 Post by Victor » 2 months ago

Bobcat,

I was just jousting at the secular article which like most of that nature find all manner of fault with the Bible.

Thanks for the links.

Bobcat
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Re: The Gentile Times . . . Reconsidered

#199 Post by Bobcat » 2 months ago

For Victor or anyone else who might be interested, this post has a link to a documentary (Patterns of Evidence: Exodus) about the exodus where the narrator talks to various 'scholars' about their belief/non-belief about the exodus. It is quite interesting.


Bobcat

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Bobcat
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Re: The Gentile Times . . . Reconsidered

#200 Post by Bobcat » 1 month ago

An article in the Master Civil Engineer website on how the pyramids were built. The article can be found here.

It is rather detailed on what type of tools were used as well as how they overcame various problems they faced in building the pyramids.


Bobcat

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