Why is SATAN still around

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Kerry Huish
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Re: Why is SATAN still around

#21 Post by Kerry Huish » 2 months ago

Get out of her wrote:
2 months ago
After Babylon the sixth world power that mankind experienced was Great Britain.
I am not sure what kind of mental gymnastics are involved here?

Revelation 17:10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.

At the time of writing the Revelation, 5 Kings (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece) had already fallen, the 6th one (Rome) was, and the 7th, (Great Britain) had not yet arrived.

Why is Satan still around?

Exodus 9:16 However, I have let you live for this purpose: to show you my power and to make my name known on the whole earth. (Christian Standard Bible)

But his days are numbered and he knows it: -

Revelation 12:12...He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.”

Kind Regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Why is SATAN still around

#22 Post by coccus ilicis » 2 months ago

coccus ilicis wrote:
2 months ago
menrov wrote:
7 years ago
In post 18, above I said:
To answer your question, one needs to first figure out the role Satan plays in the Elohim/Gods' scheme of things. Most probably it's not very different from the role of satan, as pictured below, plays in this movie.

And it will be the same role he plays again toward the end of the thousand-year reign after which satan’s role will be made redundant, even a an employer can make one redundant when one’s set of job skills are no longer required.
And then I noticed that Kerry had cited Jer 13:23 in his debate with Sol, at the end of post 20. In verse 18 of that same chapter, it says: Jehovah says: "Say to the king and the lady, 'Seat yourselves in lower places, for down from your heads, your crown of beauty will certainly come'...(Jer 13: 18) That counsel also applies in our day, and all of us on this forum need to take it to heart. Belief and faith are significant internal factors that govern our thinking and actions. But no matter how strongly held the belief is, it isn't necessarily right but is probably mostly wrong. How so? Let's look at an example in Paul's letter to the Corinthians.

Paul sent a strongly worded homily to the Corinthian congregation concerning women needing to wear a head covering when they prophesy or pray, using human fleshly reasoning to support the dictum, ending with the words. .. However, if any man seems to dispute for some other custom, we have no other, neither do the congregation of God...(1Cor 11:3-16).

Does not what is written in Paul's letter emulate the tone Jehovah denounced concerning Judah and Jerusalem, at Jer 13:9,10. The writer starts his homily to the Corinthians with the words:... Become imitators of me as I am of Christ...Now I commend you because in all things you have me in mind and you are holding fast to traditions just as I handed them on to you...(1Cor 11:1,2). Is this not simply the writer's point of view, even as bobcat pointed out in one of his posts above.
I think both of us are already set in our views
If the homily at 1Cor 11:1,2 is not an insertion, which is a real possibility since is at odds with what Paul wrote elsewhere, (1Cor 4:7,8). But whoever wrote this has fallen into that same trap as Judah and Jacob of Jer 13:8-17. The human proclivity of considering oneself as above others, in this case setting himself up as an intercessor between Christ and man, (cf. 1Cor 4:7,8).

Like it or not we are all set in our views, but they are not engraved in stone. At Jer 13:23, the verse Kerry cited, it says: ... “Can a Cushite change his skin or a leopard its spots? Jehovah had tried to help Judah and Jerusalem change their view and had failed, and so said: And if you will not hear it, in places of concealment my soul will weep because of [your] pride, and will positively shed tears because the drove of Jehovah will have been taken captive, (Jer 13:17). God looked and assessed them from his viewpoint as a collective people, he concludes that they cannot be changed even as a person cannot change the colour of their skin or the leopard his spots.

He assesses the seven gatherings of potential chosen ones in the same way. We are all set in our ways, but the Spirit implores each of us individually to heed what it says to the congregation. That means re-examining what we think we know and believe and using the best tools provided to reread what is written to make sure that what we have come to believe is what the Bible says. This is not something one can do for others, but it is something each one must do for themselves. But others are also drinking from this fountain of water. So when we write on this forum we need to consider whether what we write is what the Bible says, and whether our manner conforms to what Jesus said at Mt 7:1-5, 24-27.

What I wrote concerning satan/adversary in post 18 above is what it says in the Hebrew scriptures of the OT. Rather than rendering the term used in the account of Balaam with alternative euphemisms, I rendered the term 'adversary' as satan to make a point. Modern language translations have changed the Hebrew word adversary to satan wherever it suited them to make the text conform to an incomplete religious narrative, (1 Cor 13:9). Besides the account of Balaam, Numbers chapters, 22, 23, 24; 31:16, ( for more in this, see post 18 of this thread) Jehovah has also sent his spirit sons to play the role of an adversary/satan in other places.

For example 2 Sam 23:1 starts like this: These are the last words of David, and further down (2Sam 23:5), he says: For is not my household like that with God? Because it is an indefinitely lasting covenant that he assigned me, nicely put in order in everything and secured.... Then David’s mighty men are listed 2Sam 23:8-39. On hearing this the anger of Jehovah came to be hot against Israel and he incited David against them, saying: "Go take a count of Israel and Judah.".

Check the interlinear link for he incited above and you will see it is Jehovah that incited/enticed him to do this. And that is why Jesus taught us to say in prayer do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil,, (Mt 6:13). Deliver us is not a request but is an aorist-imperative command. In other words, we are telling God to do whatever it takes to stop us from falling into the trap. David fell into the trap of pride. There was nothing Joab could say or do to stop him, he had gotten the bit between his teeth and was determined to take a census. When he finally came to his senses it was too late as the damage had been done; he had attributed God's achievement to himself, (2 Sam 24:10, 12-14, 15,16).

Then we read in the account concerning the business of Jehoshaphat and Ahab where Jehovah again has one of his spirit persons play the role of the adversary/satan. He had told his prophet Miciah what to say to them, but they did not want to believe him, so Jehovah asked for volunteers who would go to fool/entice Ahab and Jehoshaphat. A spirit came forward, saying: I myself will entice him. And Jehovah asked him how he would do this. And the spirit answered ...I shall certainly become a deceptive spirit in the mouth of his prophets. And Jehovah thought this would work, saying: 'You will entice him, and, what is more, you will come off as a winner. Go out and do that way (1Ki 22:20-23)

From these accounts, one can see that God uses the role of an adversary/satan to draw up what is buried in the hearts of men, especially targetting those who play a major role in his kingdom. Jesus was not exempt. At the time of his baptism, when God first acknowledge him as his son God’s Spirit led him into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil. Devil is a Greek word that first occurs in the Greek translation of the OT, at Est 7:4; 8:1 and at Job 1:6,7*,9,12* 2:1,2*,3,4,6,7 Ps 109:6 Zec 3:1,2*. It does not appear to have a Hebrew equivalent. The Devil had been sent to draw out what was in Jesus's heart. The spirit devil, enticed him to prove that he was God’s son, saying, If you are the son of God, tell these stones to become loaves of bread.... Jesus understood what was happening and did not rise to the bait, but instead quoted scripture. So the Devil tried again, this time quoting scripture: ..."If you are the son of God hurl yourself down, for it is written, 'He will give a charge concerning you and they will carry you on their hands, that you may not strike a foot against a stone.' Jesus quoted yet another scripture in reply. Failing to get him to rise to the bait of pride, he then uses bribery to tempt him. In effect telling him he doesn’t have to go through all that he was destined for, (Isa 53:7-9), but that he can have all that was promised him without that (cf. Isa 53:12; Mt 4:1-11). And that is also why he said to Peter, when Peter said something similar to him, ...Get behind me Satan! You are a stumbling block to me because you think not God's thoughts but the thoughts of men, (Mt 16:23).

When one considers it was God's Spirit that led him into the wilderness to be tempted, the same spirit that incited King David and the spirit that volunteered to entice Ahab and Jehosophat, one begins to understand the role the adversary/satan plays in God’s scheme of things.

At Rev12:9 it says, So down the great dragon is hurled, the original serpent the one called Devil and Satan... Note it says that the original serpent is called devil and Satan. It doesn’t say he is the Devil/slanderer and Satan/adversary, but it is how we have been conditioned to view him, as a single entity that is responsible for all our woes.

The serpent/seraph/dragon is referred to as such throughout the OT. In the book of Job, he is the adversary/satan in God’s heavenly assembly (Job 1:6; 2:4). This is the one who battles with Michael and his angels in heaven, (Rev 12:7-9), and this is the one who will entice humankind once more at the end of the thousand-year rule, after which he will be destroyed in the lake of fire. But in most cases when we blame satan for any predicament, it is the result of our pride, neglect, action, or inaction. The result of not heeding the commands of God as taught by Jesus, (Mt 7:24-27). But that is a hard pill for us to swallow and is rejected by most. Even as it says at Rev 16:10 ...and the fifth one poured out his bowl upon the throne of the beast and its kingdom became darkened, and they were gnawing their tongues for pain, and they cursed the God of Heaven for their pains and ulcers and did not repent of their works ... (Rev 16:10,11). Yes, we humans have a propensity for blaming anyone but ourselves for the trouble we bring upon ourselves.
LRW~

AmosAU
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Re: Why is SATAN still around

#23 Post by AmosAU » 2 months ago

Hi CI,

This is a well thought out post. One I believe that has long been needed to be said. So many just accept what they've been taught, and not do their own studies and decide for themselves what the truth really is.

I believe that there will be some feathers get ruffled, instead of seeing your post for what it is, a call to do some meaningful personal study. A study to find what the truth is (exergesis) NOT study to prove themselves right (eisergesis)!

Regards, Amos.

Get out of her
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Re: Why is SATAN still around

#24 Post by Get out of her » 2 months ago

Brother Huish wrote:
Get out of her wrote: ↑
2 days ago
What you are overlooking here brother Huish is the fact that the events foretold to occur in connection with the "seventh trumpet blast" begin in verse 15 of Chapter 11 and then extend to the very end of the book of Revelation.
Kerry Huish wrote:
I most certainly was not overlooking this fact. This is why I have pointed it out here, that the two witnesses are killed before the 7th trumpet blows, see point 2: -
Kerry Huish wrote: ↑
2 days ago
2. The 7th trumpet is blown after the 2 witnesses are killed - see the context of Revelation 11.
These two witnesses are here, right up until Christ intervenes and are included in the gathering of the elect just before the 7 bowls of Gods wrath are poured out.
Mark 13:27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.
This trumpet - the final one - blows after Christ has intervened, after the sign of the Son of Man appears in heaven for ALL to see: -

I'm afraid you misunderstood the point I was trying to make brother Huish. Perhaps it would help if I begin by citing a scripture like John 5:25:


"Most truly I say to you, the hour is coming AND it is NOW when the dead will hear the voice of the son of God and those who have GIVEN HEED will LIVE."


If I suggest you need to continue reading on in connection with the events foretold with the "seventh trumpet," this is because you will soon see that this cycle of events you peak of is repeated yet again even if in a much more dramatic fashion. (Re 8:1)

Respectfully, though you don't seem to realize it you are actually confirming several of my points with your comments here. In other words, you are acknowledging that the very same cycle of events that occurred with the "fifth trumpet blast" or "fifth king" recorded for us in the first century (and referred to also in the above scripture around the year 33 CE) would be repeated also at a later time with a "SIXTH" cycle. Basically what I'm trying to convey here is exactly what the Apostle John states in Revelation 17:10, 11. This is namely the fact that this same cycle of spiritual deaths and subsequent spiritual resurrections or what ones like Paul spoke of as "plantings and harvests" that would correlate with "apostasies" and subsequent "comings of our Lord Jesus Christ" would CONTINUE to unfold on the earth until some time during the "LAST trumpet." (2 Th 2:1-4) (1 Cor 15:23, 51-53) Basically ALL the things connected with these broken and subsequently renewed kingdom covenants would be commensurate with ALL of these foretold risings and subsequent "chopping downs" of these figurative "trees." (Da 4:14, 15) (Mt 3:10) (Lu 3:9) In fact we learn from this same account in Revelation that in some sense there would even be an "EIGHTH" cycle of events involved in this which Jesus referred to roughly 65 years earlier as the "CIRCUITS of the cities of Israel." (Re 17:10, 11) (Mt 10:23)

Once again the distinction the scriptures are drawing between the initial "seven" and the final "eighth" is that the "gentile times' would have already ended by the time this "eighth king" would be manifested. Accounts like Daniel 7:12 and Revelation 11:15 should help us to understand that while foreign kings or governments would still be allowed to remain on the earth for a short time after the 'blowing of the seventh trumpet," they would now do so with no genuine authority. Ones like Bobcat are absolutely correct to point out that the end of the "gentile times" NEVER pointed to the time in which the Messianic kingdom would be established in heaven. Satan simply lost the ruling authority that had temporarily been given him at the rebellion in Eden over all the humans who would continue to follow him, whether doing so knowingly or unknowingly. (Lu 4:6) (1Joh 5:19)

What is perhaps most important for us to grasp here however is not only that it is basically a SPIRITUAL death and resurrection that is continually being referenced in the scriptures, but also that they would occur on a NATIONAL scale. This is precisely what accounts for scriptures such as found at Revelation 13:8 in connection with the "SEVENTH" foretold spiritual "baptism" or death and resurrection, and it is actually this same SPIRITUAL resurrection that is being referred to in connection with the "salvation" John is prophesying for the "SIXTH seal" there in Revelation 7:10. (Re 6:12 11:13) (2 Ki 5:14) If you are beginning to imagine that the information laid out under the "sixth seal" is actually an elaboration on the events covered under the "sixth trumpet" or visa versa and so on, you are moving in the right direction. Nevertheless basically it would not be until the Millennial Reign that a FLESHLY resurrection would accompany the spiritual one that is most often being referenced in the scriptures. This facet of the resurrection is only foretold to occur with the FINAL events of the "seventh trumpet." (Re 13, 14 21:3, 4)

Do you understand now what I am endeavoring to convey in my previous post and how this relates to scriptures you cited such as Matthew 24:30 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16? You see Paul here in 1Thessalonians is prophesying the very same cycle of events that had JUST OCCURRED once again on the earth roughly 17 years earlier in this case! Just a year or so later he reminds us of exactly what always CAUSES the spiritual death that makes a "coming" of the "two witnesses" and it's accompanying "day of Jehovah" necessary in the first place, as well as the fact that this massive spiritual death was once again already IMMANENT in 50 CE! (2 Th 2:1-8) (Re 11:3, 7, 11, 12) This is namely an "APOSTASY" of the very ones who always "RISE FIRST" ("firstfruits") when a renewed kingdom covenant and subsequent "killing" and "call to heaven" of the "two witnesses" REESTABLISHES true worship to the earth, and by extension LIFE or SALVATION! (1 Th 4:16) (1 Cor 15:23) What Paul was already warning his brothers and sisters about as early as 50 or so CE, the Apostle John was openly announcing as haven FULLY TRANSPIRED just 5 decades later. (1Joh 2:18) This is precisely the reason that John speaks of the "FIFTH king" in this foretold march of world powers as already "fallen" in this very same time frame. (Re 17:10) It is a SPIRITUAL "fall" that is being spoken of here, and what we need to appreciate is that it is virtually ALWAYS spiritual things the scriptures are addressing as opposed to literal fleshly things.

Agape love;
Sol

Get out of her
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Re: Why is SATAN still around

#25 Post by Get out of her » 2 months ago

Brother Huish wrote:
Get out of her wrote: ↑
2 days ago
After Babylon the sixth world power that mankind experienced was Great Britain.

I am not sure what kind of mental gymnastics are involved here?

Revelation 17:10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.

At the time of writing the Revelation, 5 Kings (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece) had already fallen, the 6th one (Rome) was, and the 7th, (Great Britain) had not yet arrived.
With all due love and respect Kerry a statement such as this is a great example of just how critical our obedience is in connection with the commands found in accounts like 1 Cor 10:20-21 or 2 Corinthians 6:17. Compare (Mt 24:15, 16) The fact that the "gentile times" or "appointed" period in which God's people would experience renewed and subsequently broken kingdom covenants while in a setting of foreign "captivity and exile" or "trampling of Jerusalem" was explicitly identified for us in a NUMBER of scriptures as beginning with a time frame involving the reign of a puppet king in ancient Judea by the name of Jehoiakim. (Jer 1:3) (Lu 21:24) (Re 11:2)

Correct me if I'm wrong but as I recall you are among the ones who ACCEPT the scriptural veracity of the 2,520 year time frame connected with this "seven times" prophecy. If so on that basic alone you would need to omit Egypt and Assyria from your above list since they had already come and gone as world powers well before 609 OR 607 BCE. Regardless, even if we were to fail in recognizing that there would ALWAYS be a rise of a foreign world power in connection with these broken and renewed kingdom covenants and thus the fact that 33 CE marked the rise of the SECOND foretold manifestations of the Roman word power, (ALL manifestations of which are foretold to emerge ultimately from this very same "fourth beast" of Daniel 7:7, 8) we would end up with MORE than "seven kings" being involved in this foretold period of the "appointed times of the nations." (Lu 21:24)

I mean no disrespect when I point out that you are still suffering the effects of many years of "teachings and commands of MEN as doctrine," and in this case those more specifically from the Watchtower organization obviously. (Mt 15:9) All of us have had to deal with this obstacle to some extent or other and I'm not trying to single you out or attack you here. You actually made this mistake also in your previous post when you parroted their false teaching that what is being prophesied in Revelation 17:8 is with reference to the League of Nations basically changing its name later to the UNITED Nations.

You see these "wild beasts" continually being spoken of in the scriptures would "ascend INTO" and "out OF" this figurative "abyss" with a Levant and subsequent "chopping down" THROUGHOUT the foretold period of foreign exile and captivity, just as the holy writings had ALWAYS foretold. (Re 17:8) (Da 2:36-43 7:4-8) This very same account confirms that this is what is being referenced when Jehovah's angel made it clear that what Daniel was seeing in this vision was something that "WAS, but is NOT, and is ABOUT TO ascend out of the abyss." Bear in mind this is a setting of around 96 CE that John is seeing this vision. Moreover we find this very same vision presented as going both forward AND BACKWARD in time with reference to 96 or so CE just a couple verses later as well. (Re 17:10)

Agape love;
Sol

Kerry Huish
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Re: Why is SATAN still around

#26 Post by Kerry Huish » 2 months ago

Get out of her wrote:
2 months ago

I'm afraid you misunderstood the point I was trying to make brother Huish. Perhaps it would help if I begin by citing a scripture like John 5:25:


"Most truly I say to you, the hour is coming AND it is NOW when the dead will hear the voice of the son of God and those who have GIVEN HEED will LIVE."


If I suggest you need to continue reading on in connection with the events foretold with the "seventh trumpet," this is because you will soon see that this cycle of events you peak of is repeated yet again even if in a much more dramatic fashion. (Re 8:1)

The point you are making, or at least I believe you are making, is that the resurrection, the 7th trumpet blast, has already occured.

This is simply not correct.

Yes, Jesus did raise people when he was alive on the earth, but all these died again, even some prophets prior to Christ had also performed ressurections, but those who were ressurected died again.

Lazarus was raised, but he also died again, this was not the resurrection that was to be associated with the 7th trumpet which results in being imperishable or incorruptible, this was yet future.

The 7th trumpet marks a resurrection to incorruptibility of ALL those who had died in union with Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

You are teaching that this has already occured, the same as some in the first century were doing.
Paul chastised these ones for teaching such a thing and said that such ones had deviated from the truth: -

2 Timothy 2:17 Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18 who have departed from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.

Maybe Hymenaeus and Philetus also pointed to Jesus words in John 5:25 and implied that everybody else, including Paul, was simply misunderstanding or had been misinformed, that the resurrection, the 7th trumpet had already occured.

This was lies.

Now are you or are you not teaching that the 7th trumpet and its associated resurrection has occured and is occuring?

Maybe you could just respond with a simple yes or no to avoid any misunderstanding...?
Get out of her wrote:
2 months ago

Correct me if I'm wrong but as I recall you are among the ones who ACCEPT the scriptural veracity of the 2,520 year time frame connected with this "seven times" prophecy. If so on that basic alone you would need to omit Egypt and Assyria from your above list since they had already come and gone as world powers well before 609 OR 607 BCE.
I accept that there are definite limits to the 'times' that Jehovah had appointed where he has allowed man to rule, specifically in relation to trampling Jerusalem.

Acts 17:26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.

Luke 21:24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

However, I do not believe that the 7 times meant that there was to be 7 individual world powers between Babylon and the end of the gentile times. I find no scriptural basis for this, if anything it is indicative of a period of time only.
Same as it was for Nebuchadnezzar, there were not 7 different rulers while he was mentally ill, it was just 7 years, a time period, that is all.

Regards

Kerry Huish
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

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menrov
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Re: Why is SATAN still around

#27 Post by menrov » 2 months ago

I am a father and I have a daughter. Imagine that one day a man breaks into the house, rapes and kills my daughter. I did not intervene to protect her as I wanted to allow people to be bad just to show I am right. And one day in some future, I will correct this event.
What do you think of this? Fair? Righteous? Sign of love (God is love)? Not one human or judge would give me a free pass in this case.

This has nothing to do with faith in a creator but more to validate contents in the scriptures. In other words, use my brains to see if the words and stories I read, make general sense and support and are in line with other statements in the same scriptures. I do not believe there anything wrong with doing that.
In this particular case, it almost seems that the writer(s) tried to find a reason why evil (Satan) continue to exist, regardless if the reason given actually make sense or supports faith. For some, the given reason might generate some hope (it will all be better in the future) but so far, no-one has experienced the realization of that hope. In contrast, many (innocent) people continue to experience and suffer from horrific events (illness, accidents, abuse etc). Various Religious leaders try to (ab)use that hope by telling that soon that hope will be realized.

Jesus taught that it is wrong to say "keep yourself warm and fed" and do nothing to actually provide the help needed. We are to do for others the same as we would like them to do for us. Is that what we want, that someone just standby and do nothing to help a victim?

Kerry Huish
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Re: Why is SATAN still around

#28 Post by Kerry Huish » 2 months ago

menrov wrote:
2 months ago
I am a father and I have a daughter. Imagine that one day a man breaks into the house, rapes and kills my daughter. I did not intervene to protect her as I wanted to allow people to be bad just to show I am right. And one day in some future, I will correct this event.
What do you think of this? Fair? Righteous? Sign of love (God is love)? Not one human or judge would give me a free pass in this case.
This is not really painting a clear picture or a fair comparison of what has happened here.

If you daughter (Eve) had rebelled against you, sided with a child molester (Satan) in leveling slander against you, proving herself to be an enemy of your authority, claiming that your way and authority is flawed.
Then, if she later fell on bad times and suffered greatly due to the very bad choices that she had already made, while outside of your home and protective care...

Yes, this is a far better comparison.

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

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Bruno
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Re: Why is SATAN still around

#29 Post by Bruno » 2 months ago

Kerry Huish wrote:
2 months ago
menrov wrote:
2 months ago
I am a father and I have a daughter. Imagine that one day a man breaks into the house, rapes and kills my daughter. I did not intervene to protect her as I wanted to allow people to be bad just to show I am right. And one day in some future, I will correct this event.
What do you think of this? Fair? Righteous? Sign of love (God is love)? Not one human or judge would give me a free pass in this case.
This is not really painting a clear picture or a fair comparison of what has happened here.

If you daughter (Eve) had rebelled against you, sided with a child molester (Satan) in leveling slander against you, proving herself to be an enemy of your authority, claiming that your way and authority is flawed.
Then, if she later fell on bad times and suffered greatly due to the very bad choices that she had already made, while outside of your home and protective care...

Yes, this is a far better comparison.

Kerry
Kerry

How would you account for the fact that Menrov's daughter and Eve are not equivalent. The same choice in the same circumstances was not presented to each one. Most christians use the freewill defence in an attempt to try and explain God's permission of evil. Witnesses claim we inherited the personal choice and therefore consequences, of three individuals, Adam, Eve and Satan. So only the free will of these three beings is respected by the JW god. It isn't an argument which can withstand scrutiny. A child locked in a modester's cellar has had his or her free will taken from them. They are no longer in an environment where they can choose to follow God or not. They aren't going to know or learn anything other than pain, suffering and death. God watches and doesn't intervene.

The fact is no christian or christian organisation has ever been able to provide an answer to this problem. This doesn't mean there isn't an answer. It just means we don't know what it is. People's attempts at answering it, says a lot more about the kind of god they are prepared to worship. It is often said we become like the god we worship.

Karl

Kerry Huish
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Re: Why is SATAN still around

#30 Post by Kerry Huish » 2 months ago

Bruno wrote:
2 months ago

How would you account for the fact that Menrov's daughter and Eve are not equivalent.
Same as Menrovs implications are not that equivalent to what was actually was going on.
Bruno wrote:
2 months ago
The fact is no christian or christian organisation has ever been able to provide an answer to this problem. This doesn't mean there isn't an answer. It just means we don't know what it is.
And if we do not know then we should refrain from speaking foolishly and implying 'to others' that the creator is at fault, implying bad motive.

Proverbs 18:13 Spouting off before listening to the facts is both shameful and foolish.

Ecclesiastes 5:2 Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few.

Romans 3:4...Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written: “So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.”

Regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

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