So is there going to be a great tribulation or is there a misunderstanding on what that actually means?

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Kerry Huish
Posts: 410
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Re: So is there going to be a great tribulation or is there a misunderstanding on what that actually means?

#41 Post by Kerry Huish » 3 weeks ago

Proselytiser of Jah wrote:
3 weeks ago
Kerry Huish wrote:
3 weeks ago
Proselytiser of Jah wrote:
3 weeks ago


It's worth noting Kerry that that part of the verse may be spurious, as it doesn't appear in the earliest manuscripts, which is why it's often in brackets.

So it's possible the second resurrection will be "during" the 1000 years.
I am not saying that I do not believe that a physical ressurection will also take place during the 1000 years - I most certainly do.

But those that are ressurected during the millennium are not ressurected to life. They are ressurected to judgment, redeemed and placed into a condition where that may reach out and eat from the tree of life.

This eating from the tree of life - for everyone else apart from the 144k - will take place after the 1000 years has ended, after Satan has been let back out, not before.

In this sense, only the 144k will 'come to life' before the 1000 years starts, with the rest being able to obtain life after the 1000 years has ended.

Being kept alive for a very long, long time and having everlasting life are two very different things.

But this is another topic entirely...

Kind Regards

Kerry
So you believe in "three" resurrections?
I believe in a resurrection 'to life' for the 144k which takes place in two parts. Part at the opening of the 5th seal and part at the blowing of the 7th trumpet.
I believe in a resurrection to judgment, which will take place 'during' the 1000 years.
Then, after the 1000 years, I believe in another resurrection 'to life' for those that pass the final test, after Satan's release.

So, yes, I believe in multiple resurrections.

Kind Regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

Proselytiser of Jah
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Re: So is there going to be a great tribulation or is there a misunderstanding on what that actually means?

#42 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 3 weeks ago

Kerry Huish wrote:
3 weeks ago


I believe in a resurrection 'to life' for the 144k which takes place in two parts. Part at the opening of the 5th seal and part at the blowing of the 7th trumpet.
I believe in a resurrection to judgment, which will take place 'during' the 1000 years.
Then, after the 1000 years, I believe in another resurrection 'to life' for those that pass the final test, after Satan's release.

So, yes, I believe in multiple resurrections.

Kind Regards

Kerry
Do you have any evidence for that? Since the scriptures only say there are two resurrections. It sounds like a lot of supposition and insersion, not to be offensive of course. I'd rather go by the words of the scriptures which say there is only two main resurrections. As such, any all mention of resurrection must be made to fit into that paradigm. By saying there are "multi-parts" to resurrections really is saying there are more than two I'd say.

I believe there to be the first, the elect 144k, and then anyone else to be raised after that is the second during the 1000 years. After that the release of Satan and the final test to see who will side with who, which will detirmine if those raised will retain their faith and go on living, or will be sent to Gehenna with Satan.
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

Kerry Huish
Posts: 410
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: So is there going to be a great tribulation or is there a misunderstanding on what that actually means?

#43 Post by Kerry Huish » 3 weeks ago

Proselytiser of Jah wrote:
3 weeks ago
Kerry Huish wrote:
3 weeks ago


I believe in a resurrection 'to life' for the 144k which takes place in two parts. Part at the opening of the 5th seal and part at the blowing of the 7th trumpet.
I believe in a resurrection to judgment, which will take place 'during' the 1000 years.
Then, after the 1000 years, I believe in another resurrection 'to life' for those that pass the final test, after Satan's release.

So, yes, I believe in multiple resurrections.

Kind Regards

Kerry
Do you have any evidence for that? Since the scriptures only say there are two resurrections. It sounds like a lot of supposition and insersion, not to be offensive of course. I'd rather go by the words of the scriptures which say there is only two main resurrections. As such, any all mention of resurrection must be made to fit into that paradigm. By saying there are "multi-parts" to resurrections really is saying there are more than two I'd say.

I believe these to be the first, the elect 144k, and then anyone else to be raised after that is the second during the 1000 years. After that the release of Satan and the final test to see who will side with who, which will detirmine if those raised will retain their faith and on on living, or will be sent to Gehenna with Satan.
Enough evidence for resurrection 'to life' for the 144k in two parts is already presented in this thread.

The other scripture, which you feel is spurious, Rev 20:5, is also basis for my belief in the rest 'coming to life' after the 1000 years has ended.
Charles Taze Russel felt this was spurious - I do not and neither do many other scholars.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/ ... n-ADDITION

Granted, it is a difficult verse to understand, but when you realize that those ressurected during the 1000 years are ressurected to judgment and not to life, then it all makes sense.
The purpose of the Kingdom is to restore the original purpose and put mankind back in line to obtain life.

Adam never ate from the tree of life, Adam never obtained life, he forfeited the condition that would have allowed him too reach out and obtain it.
The 1000 year reign is all about restoration and putting mankind back on track in order for him to obtain life.

If you want to discuss the resurrections, maybe you could start a new thread or look for one that discusses it?

Kind Regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

Bobcat
Posts: 3810
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: So is there going to be a great tribulation or is there a misunderstanding on what that actually means?

#44 Post by Bobcat » 3 weeks ago

Kerry, my literary analysis of that passage in Revelation (here) leads me to agree with you about "the rest of the dead." I already did see it that way due to my WT background. But the literary analysis gives me my own reason for seeing it that way now.


Bobcat

Kerry Huish
Posts: 410
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: So is there going to be a great tribulation or is there a misunderstanding on what that actually means?

#45 Post by Kerry Huish » 3 weeks ago

Bobcat wrote:
3 weeks ago
Kerry, my literary analysis of that passage in Revelation (here) leads me to agree with you about "the rest of the dead." I already did see it that way due to my WT background. But the literary analysis gives me my own reason for seeing it that way now.


Bobcat
:D
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

Proselytiser of Jah
Posts: 171
Joined: 1 month ago
Contact:

Re: So is there going to be a great tribulation or is there a misunderstanding on what that actually means?

#46 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 3 weeks ago

Bobcat wrote:
3 weeks ago
Kerry, my literary analysis of that passage in Revelation (here) leads me to agree with you about "the rest of the dead." I already did see it that way due to my WT background. But the literary analysis gives me my own reason for seeing it that way now.


Bobcat
Thanks for that brother, that helped me gain some more insight into the scriptures. The references and helped me further reason on my theories of "two classes" (which I've now added a tiny section to in my article) :)
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

Bobcat
Posts: 3810
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: So is there going to be a great tribulation or is there a misunderstanding on what that actually means?

#47 Post by Bobcat » 3 weeks ago

Glad to be of any help. And I look forward to seeing your article.


Bobcat

Proselytiser of Jah
Posts: 171
Joined: 1 month ago
Contact:

Re: So is there going to be a great tribulation or is there a misunderstanding on what that actually means?

#48 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 3 weeks ago

Bobcat wrote:
3 weeks ago
Glad to be of any help. And I look forward to seeing your article.


Bobcat
The link is posted in my "two class christianity" thread in the comments if you haven't seen it

viewtopic.php?p=48943#p48943
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

Bobcat
Posts: 3810
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: So is there going to be a great tribulation or is there a misunderstanding on what that actually means?

#49 Post by Bobcat » 3 weeks ago

Hi PoJ,

Thank you. I forgot to ask about that.


Bobcat

johnamos2.0
Posts: 98
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Re: So is there going to be a great tribulation or is there a misunderstanding on what that actually means?

#50 Post by johnamos2.0 » 3 weeks ago

Kerry when does the Last Day begin? I am referring to the Last Day that Jesus said that he was going to resurrect those that were given him and also said it in connection with Lazarus. Also do u agree that the 7th trumpet is the Last Trumpet? If so when does the 7th trumpet sound?

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