Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

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Kerry Huish
Posts: 259
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#41 Post by Kerry Huish » 1 month ago

Stranger wrote:
1 month ago
Hi Kerry,
Kerry Huish wrote:
1 month ago
1. You believe that the one seated on the throne in Revelation 4 is Jesus?
Yes I do, and not just the throne in John's vision at Rev 4.
Kerry Huish wrote:
1 month ago
2. And that the Lamb, who was seen seperate as being in the midst of the throne in Revelation 5 & 6 is also Jesus?
Yes I do, Jesus as the slain Lamb with the seven spirits of God that was sent forth into all the earth snatched the book out of the hand of the one on the throne. (Christ is the only one that can interpret it.) (<a class="rtBibleRef" href="https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Rev%205.6-7" data-reference="Rev 5.6-7" data-version="esv" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank">Rev 5:6-7</a>)
Kerry Huish wrote:
1 month ago
3. And that Jesus gave or took the scroll from himself, because Jesus can multi task?
I'm not sure about you, but I'm sure about Jesus and trust me, it was no big deal.
Kerry Huish wrote:
1 month ago
4. And that being seated at the right hand of God is the same as sitting with God's on His throne itself?
I wouldn't phrase that question that way, but in answer I'll just tell you that Jesus was glad that his seat is being kept warm.


I don't have much time this morning so maybe you can answer my questions and I'll get back to you a little later.


Stranger, (<a class="rtBibleRef" href="https://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Acts%207.59" data-reference="Acts 7.59" data-version="kjv1900" data-purpose="bible-reference" target="_blank">Acts 7:59 KJV</a>)
lol - and you accused me of seeing double and needed glasses...

Classic stranger.

Victor
Posts: 50
Joined: 2 months ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#42 Post by Victor » 1 month ago

(Revelation 1:1) . . .A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him,. . .

Jesus always has been and always will be subject to, subordinate to, in obedience to, the Father!

The Word speaks what he is given to speak. He is the Word of God not the Word, the Logos, to himself.

Thus what follows in Revelation must be understood under those all encompassing words: "which God gave him."

Victor
Posts: 50
Joined: 2 months ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#43 Post by Victor » 1 month ago

Also,

(Matthew 28:18) . . .: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.

The Father gives authority but he does NOT relinquish it. He remains all powerful in all things.

Stranger
Posts: 1898
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#44 Post by Stranger » 1 month ago

Kerry Huish wrote:
1 month ago
lol - and you accused me of seeing double and needed glasses...

Classic *Stranger.

Kerry, your love has grown cold, but I know you can still recognize quality my friend, and one day when you really need a friend, you'll remember these posts I continue to send. Thanks for the compliment brother, classic Stranger laying another post, two in the ground, four up above, staying still. Can you read me?(Rev 2:4 KJV)


Stranger, (Jn 8:55)

ilBereano
Posts: 15
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#45 Post by ilBereano » 1 month ago

Greetings all

here is what I have been taught from Bible, related also to when has begun the Kingdom in Heavens ...

https://thelatterdayschronology.blogspo ... s-god.html

ilBereano

Get out of her
Posts: 942
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#46 Post by Get out of her » 1 month ago

All the confusion here on this topic as well as what often appears to many to be contradictory scriptures will be cleared up in our minds the moment we begin to understand and factor in the following things:

Sudden and incredibly dramatic changes in the setting and context that are so significant the scriptures refer to them as great figurative/spiritual "earthquakes." (Re 11:15) (Zec 14:5)

There has of course ALWAYS been a theocratic HEAVENLY kingdom, and even BEFORE the emergence of its MESSIANIC expression in the first century there had also been periods of time in which its theocratic authority and power was manifested on the earth at least with a very small nation we still refer to as Israel. It is of course specifically the MESSIANIC kingdom we are focusing on at the moment. When this "reality" of what had been "typified" or prophetically "foreshadowed" with the brief manifestations of FLESHLY Israel experienced its initial birth in 33 CE, this was a kingdom that was manifested simultaneously as both a heavenly AND earthly phenomenon. (Col 1:13 2:17) (He 8:5 9:24) The resurrection of Jesus to heaven ALONE makes this fact irrefutable, but this is nevertheless confirmed also by scriptures like Galatians 4:26 and Hebrews 12:22.

The confusion here as well as what merely APPEARS to be contradictory scriptures stems primarily from endeavoring to apply various passages to time periods in which they simply are not applicable. This extremely common mistake will begin to be rectified the moment we begin to understand things like the fact that basically everything we read in the Gospel accounts applies ONLY to the foretold time frames in which broken holy marriage covenants have reduced Christ's "brothers" from things like incredibly powerful Apostles who can perform miracles and write books of the Bible to mere spiritual "virgins" and "widows" who are now in desperate need of being spiritually fed and cared for themselves. (Mt 25:34-40) By contrast basically everything we read from the book of Acts all the way UP TO John's final writings at the end of the first century applies to a time frame in which Jehovah's kingdom covenant has not only been renewed with repentant "virgins" and "widows," but also REMAINS in good standing with Jehovah.

The reason we basically do not even ENCOUNTER books of the Bible written after 98 or so CE or for that matter things like APOSTLES, is because what John is announcing there in 1 John 2:18 is a broken kingdom/marriage covenant or otherwise precisely what would always REMOVE the EARTHLY portion of God's kingdom from the equation altogether. AT THIS POINT, up until the time in which Jehovah now once again sends his prophets or "two witnesses" to renew the broken covenant with the more repentant ones of the anointed, NEITHER of these two rather distinct settings found in the scriptures would apply. (Re 11:3, 7, 11, 12) This is because in this setting, the EARTHLY portion or facet of God's nation does not exist at all in ANY form, whether that be in the form of the lowly "ShuNEmmite maiden or virgin," or otherwise the fully restored and glorious "ShuLAmmite WIFE." (1 Ki 1:1-4) (Song 6:13) There is of course NEVER an "apostasy" in among the resurrected "incorruptible and immortal" kings and priests of "HEAVENLY Jerusalem" that would break ANY covenant with Jehovah, let alone the holy KINGDOM covenant. (1 Cor 15:51-53) (He 12:22) (2 Th 2:1-4) (Da 11:30-32)

When it comes to the FINAL foretold manifestation of this Messianic kingdom, there are actually a FEW things about it that were foretold to be unique. If we could simply better UNDERSTAND at least one or two of these unique facets, it would essentially clear up anything left of the confusion that remains on this topic.

What is actually being conveyed in accounts like Daniel 7:11-14 or Revelation 11:15 in connection with this "last trumpet" Paul speaks of in 1st Corinthians is NOT that this kingdom would finally exist in the heavens at this foretold point in time, but rather that when it would subsequently be extended once again to the earth on this FINAL foretold occasion with a FINAL renewal of the broken covenant, it will no longer be competing with ANY of the authority and power that SATAN had been granted over the earth after the rebellion in the Garden of Eden. (Mt 4:6) (Re 13:2) While both the demons AND the governments they control would subsequently be allowed to remain for a short while, they would do so with no genuine authority or power. Largely for this same reason, the final foretold EARTHLY manifestation of God's kingdom on this occasion would NOT involve the rise of a foreign world power that would rule over the earth along WITH it.

If or when we can actually accept very demonstrate-able scriptural truths such as these, rest assured EVERYTHING we continue to recognize as either confusing or contradictory in the scriptures on this subject as well as many others will suddenly begin making perfect sense to us.

Agape love;
Sol

Bobcat
Posts: 3305
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#47 Post by Bobcat » 1 week ago

I added about a half dozen extra references to post # 2 (here) in this thread and arranged the material to be a little easier on the eyes.


Bobcat

Dajo1
Posts: 345
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#48 Post by Dajo1 » 1 week ago

Reading back over those now, BC.

Had my interest piqued after reading Vinquns comment over at the other place...

Bobcat
Posts: 3305
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#49 Post by Bobcat » 1 week ago

Hi David,

Vidqun did give me the transfiguration account which I am going to add to the "Some might object" section of post # 2.

The transfiguration showed, not Jesus being crowned or being made king, but, "the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." (Mt 16:28); "The kingdom of God after it has come with power." (Mk 9:1); "... the kingdom of God." (Lu 9:27); "the majestic glory" confirming for Peter what was still future in connection with Jesus. (2Pe 1:17, 19; Compare Num 24:17, 18, 19)

It appears to me that the transfiguration is picturing Jesus' returning glory (Mt 24:27; Rev 1:7), his parousia (for which see this post), not the humble start of his rule. (Ps 110:1; Zech 9:9; Heb 9:28; Rev 6:2)

Vidqun is a student of the Bible, by the way. We've talked in years past. His viewpoint is worthy of consideration.


Bobcat

Dajo1
Posts: 345
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#50 Post by Dajo1 » 1 week ago

Looking at his Kingship from the other (or another) angle. His death.

Rom 5:14
“Yet, death ruled from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin in the same way Adam did when he disobeyed. Adam is an image of the one who would come.”
‭‭
Rom 5:17
“It is certain that death ruled because of one person’s failure. It’s even more certain that those who receive God’s overflowing kindness and the gift of his approval will rule in life because of one person, Jesus Christ.”
‭‭

Rom 5:20,21
20 Now the Law came on the scene so that trespassing might increase.+ But where sin abounded, undeserved kindness abounded still more. 21 To what end? So that just as sin ruled as king with death,+ so also undeserved kindness might rule as king through righteousness leading to everlasting life through Jesus Christ our Lord.+

Rom 6:12 AMPC
“Let not sin therefore rule as king in your mortal (short-lived, perishable) bodies, to make you yield to its cravings and be subject to its lusts and evil passions.”

Rom 6:14 ASV
“For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under law, but under grace.”
‭‭
His last words were “it is finished”. Death was conquered when he died.

‭‭Sin and death are no longer ruling.

He said after he was resurrected that he had conquered or dominated the world. John 16:33

As you pointed out - Heb 9:28
28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

His Kingship was when he dealt with King Death and King Sin. - he conquered them. Dealt with them. Threw them out, he rules instead of them!

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