Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

This is the place to discuss anything to do with scriptural doctrine. It is the primary purpose of this site, and most discussions will be here.
Forum rules
Matt 18:6; Eccl 7:9; 1 Pet 4:8 (If you're not sure what they say then please hover over them with your mouse or look them up in your own Bible before posting)
Message
Author
QuestionsFromReaders
Posts: 51
Joined: 1 week ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#71 Post by QuestionsFromReaders » 1 week ago

johnamos2.0 wrote: 1 week ago How is it that so many do not understand that?
Perspective?

goghtherefore
Posts: 208
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#72 Post by goghtherefore » 1 week ago

Re: "Perspective?"

Perception?

😎
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Luke 9:35

QuestionsFromReaders
Posts: 51
Joined: 1 week ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#73 Post by QuestionsFromReaders » 1 week ago

goghtherefore wrote: 1 week ago Re: "Perspective?"

Perception?

😎
Thanks, again. :)

AmosAU
Posts: 1368
Joined: 7 years ago
Location: Qld. Australia
Contact:

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#74 Post by AmosAU » 1 week ago

QuestionsFromReaders wrote: 1 week ago
goghtherefore wrote: 1 week ago Re: "Perspective?"

Perception?

😎
Thanks, again. :)
Hi QFR,

A belated welcome to the forum.

Regards, Amos.

Bobcat
Posts: 4134
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#75 Post by Bobcat » 1 week ago

Hi QFR

I had a reply post for your post here, but the forum just will not let me post it, and for the life of me, I can't figure out what the problem is.


Bobcat

Bobcat
Posts: 4134
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Parousia and When Jesus Begins Ruling

#76 Post by Bobcat » 1 day ago

Hi QFR,

Below is my reply to your post here. Apparently, whatever problem that was preventing it from being posted is now gone. I had it saved in a text file.

At any rate, it is not intended to be argumentative. Probably, now, mostly for visitors to the forum. So take the points as you see fit:

Is there evidence on earth that Jesus today is ruling on earth? Does the whole earth bow to his kingship and rulership? Does wearing a crown in heaven translate to ruling with that crown on earth?
The links on Inaugurated Eschatology in my post above (here) address this. The idea is also described as the kingdom having a 'now and yet future' aspect to it. That is, Jesus rules over his faithful disciples at present. But when he returns he will impose his rule over all of mankind. So, to me, the idea of expecting to see Jesus presently ruling visibly in a way that is comparable to how the nations rule is a mistaken view. (Compare also Mt 20:24-28; Mr 10:42-45)

The parables of the hidden treasure (Mt 13:44) and the pearl of high value (Mt 13:45-46) seem to present kingdom opportunities as a personal experience. The parable of the wheat & weeds presents the idea of the current age having many weed-like disciples obscuring the wheat-like ones. These parables are describing what "the kingdom of the heavens is like." And thus, they lend themselves to Jesus' current rule being somewhat 'hidden' from the view of mankind in general. For most weed-like disciples, they would probably 'see' Jesus' current rule within the framework of whichever Christian 'organization' they belong to.

As an aside, see also this post which offers the possibility that the parable of the growing seed in Mr 4:26-29 has a similar meaning to the parable of the leaven in Mt 13:33. If seen this way, it would also lend itself to the idea that the kingdom, in this age, at least until its coming advent, would have a somewhat 'underground' nature to it.

Does the Watchtower's invisible presence of a ruling king make sense when Christ himself said not to look for him in an inner chamber (unseen) or follow someone who says here is the Christ?
I don't subscribe to the "invisible presence" idea. I used to until I did my own research on the topic. See this post.

Have the Christian churches these last 2000 years shown themselves to be ruled by their King?
Generally no. But I believe individuals have. But see my comment above on the parable of the wheat & weeds. The fulfillment of the parable might make it difficult to identify who is and is not an approved disciple of Jesus. And it also leaves open for individuals to choose as they wish.

But as an additional point regarding the nominal churches that have existed, and whether they could be used by Christ for various things, compare how the judges in the book of Judges were often less than stellar individuals, and yet were able to be used by Jehovah. (For example, compare this post on Samson and the next few that follow.)

How can we say Jesus is King on the earth, Jesus reigns on the earth, when there is no congregation who is directly led by God's spirit, no individual who is directly led by God's spirit, no man who can prove himself to be anointed with God's spirit, baptized in the spirit, as Jesus himself promised he would do?
See again my comments above on the wheat & weeds parable. Jesus says that the situation does not get sorted out until the "close of the age." I wouldn't worry about proving to others whether you are spirit anointed. Jn 3:7-8 would seem to indicate that proving such a thing to those who aren't is not possible.

Are we not waiting for the Return of our King?
I think most here on this forum would give a hearty "yes" to that.


Bobcat

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], Semrush [Bot] and 1 guest