Are The Ten Commandments For Christians?

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AmosAU
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Re: Are The Ten Commandments For Christians?

#11 Post by AmosAU » 5 years ago

I'm just bumping this topic back up due to the several threads & comments regarding the Torah & the Ten Commandments.
I must state yet again, in no way am I saying or suggesting that anyone should be Torah observant, as this (like most other things) is between themselves & their Heavenly Father. Sadly, many people have many differing views on what it means to be Torah observant.

There are a small number of points that I should fine tune slightly, but overall I believe the original article is okay.

As you will see from my last post, it was dated December 2015, I'm almost ready to post some of the articles that I've been working on since then. I hope to do this in the near future.

Regards, Amos.

Marina
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Re: Are The Ten Commandments For Christians?

#12 Post by Marina » 5 years ago

Hi Amos

First off my initial response is yes of course The 10 Commandments are for Christians.

I am still reading through your post but these are my initial thoughts.

I remember when the Sabbath used to be kept in England, that is the Sunday Sabbath not the Scriptural Saturday Sabbath. It was a very nice day and most people looked forward to it. Not many went to church but those that did didn’t have to fight with their boss for a day off.

When the Sunday Sabbath was done away with what it meant was that shops and banks opened. Gradually town got busier, not with good works but with commerce. There was an increase in vagrancy and lawlessness such as had never been seen in this part of the world. Callousness appeared to be gripping what (in large measure) had been a tender-hearted, caring society.

When Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath and did fine works on the Sabbath day, I think what he was showing was that there is nothing wrong with acting as Jehovah would act on a Sabbath day. Being merciful, showing loving kindness, healing the sick and looking after widows and orphans in their tribulation. That kind of thing.

What Jesus didn’t mean was go to a football match or carry out acts of commerce on a Saturday.

Interesting that you quote:-
AmosAU wrote:
52 years ago
1 John 5:21; “Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.”
That was one scripture I felt showed that Jehovah’s Witnesses were the true religion (or the best going) because they do not get involved with acts of interfaith.
Marina

DeborahsTree
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Re: Are The Ten Commandments For Christians?

#13 Post by DeborahsTree » 5 years ago

Thank you, Amos.

Yes, I believe the Ten Commandments are for Christians.

The Sabbath can be celebrated as Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, celebrated it doing God's will.

Love and respect to you,
Deborah

AmosAU
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Re: Are The Ten Commandments For Christians?

#14 Post by AmosAU » 5 years ago

Hi Marina & Deborah,

Thanks for your replies.

Regards, Amos.

LonelySheep
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Re: Are The Ten Commandments For Christians?

#15 Post by LonelySheep » 5 years ago

Thanks for bumping this Amos. It's been on my mind lately. Have you done any research about how the 10 Commandments are separate from the ceremonial law? As someone who does believe that the ritual laws leading to Jesus are not meant to be followed today, I am still seeing very strongly that they 10 Commandments were separate and ever-lasting. And let's be honest here, the only one we have to debate about following is the Sabbath.

GodsWordIsTruth
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Re: Are The Ten Commandments For Christians?

#16 Post by GodsWordIsTruth » 5 years ago

LonelySheep wrote:
52 years ago
And let's be honest here, the only one we have to debate about following is the Sabbath.

Exactly!! :shrug:

AmosAU
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Re: Are The Ten Commandments For Christians?

#17 Post by AmosAU » 5 years ago

LonelySheep wrote:
52 years ago
Thanks for bumping this Amos. It's been on my mind lately. Have you done any research about how the 10 Commandments are separate from the ceremonial law? As someone who does believe that the ritual laws leading to Jesus are not meant to be followed today, I am still seeing very strongly that they 10 Commandments were separate and ever-lasting. And let's be honest here, the only one we have to debate about following is the Sabbath.
Hi Lonely Sheep,

Yes I have done considerable research into this very thing that you've asked. Almost all my early studies have been lost to a computer that crashed beyond repair.
I have put together as much as I can from memory during the last few years. Simply put, most or all of the ceremonial Law was concerning ritual living, sacrifices, personal & national disputes, the priesthood, etc. There are some of these commandments that I'm still wondering if or how they may apply to believers.

When it comes to the Ten Commandments though, these are the only Commandments that were actually written by the finger of God. When we do an intelligent study of them, it will be seen that each one was in effect long before the time of the Exodus from Egypt. It becomes obvious that they are really "everlasting Commandments." As I've said before, I'm almost ready to post an article that has become quite long, even though I've only used the key or major verses, that I believe will prove this very point. I hope to have it completed this weekend, but can't promise this as I'm also working on about 6+ other important articles at the same time. I go to whichever the Spirit's leading takes me at the time. I was only doing some serious research during the middle of the night (Thursday) that will be extremely valuable on another topic that I'm expanding to cover a broader scope.

BTW, you raised the point about the Sabbath, yes this is so true! Most will readily accept the other nine but stop short of keeping the Sabbath. I've raised this several times & not many will recognize or respond to this when I ask....."Why NOT keep the Sabbath?" Are we only desirous of keeping that which is "convenient?" This raises yet another question, "Why did the early Apostles & disciples keep the Sabbath if it wasn't required of them?"

Regards, Amos.

LonelySheep
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Re: Are The Ten Commandments For Christians?

#18 Post by LonelySheep » 5 years ago

Looking forward to your info, Amos! Thank you for sharing all your hard work!

jo-el
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Re: Are The Ten Commandments For Christians?

#19 Post by jo-el » 5 years ago

LonelySheep wrote:
52 years ago
BTW, you raised the point about the Sabbath, yes this is so true! Most will readily accept the other nine but stop short of keeping the Sabbath. I've raised this several times & not many will recognize or respond to this when I ask....."Why NOT keep the Sabbath?"
Christians in general do not necessarily consider themselves to be observing the ten commandments, but under the law of Christ. As I said to Amos in another thread, I am reluctant to answer because I am not against the sabbath or the law, but feel compelled to answer when the question is presented in such absolute terms. I am quite divided on the issue personally, but just cannot firmly arrive at the belief that the ten commandments themselves were meant for people of the nations and I find much of the reasoning used by seventh day (and beyond) teachers quite contrived. For example, when Jesus warned about fleeing Judea on the sabbath, it does not have anything to do with believers keeping the sabbath day. Our Lord made this statement 1) to Israelite believers living in Judea, and 2) it couldn't be about the person actually fleeing on the sabbath day, because there is no law against fleeing on the sabbath day. The reasonable conclusion seems to be that it would obviously be more difficult to flee on a sabbath day in that region.

As per your statement regarding a response to your questions (and it is a difficult, searching one, no doubt), there are numerous verses showing that the ten commandments were for the nation of Israel, a covenant and a sign between them and God, as was the book of the law and I have yet to see a satisfactory answer to the question - where is the Sinai covenant bound upon believers in Christ?

Being unable to decide whether a day is the one actually meant for worship requires a definite conclusion to be reached and if it must be observed in a certain way under Christ as for the Israelites, that automatically puts most believers in a difficult position - e.g. are Christians to observe TWO holy days per week, or just 1 and which one?

Unfortunately, if I may, there are in fact many other reasons :-
- the few recorded statements of Jesus on sabbath include such as "My Father works till now, and I work"
(while Christians may not necessarily be filling sabbath with good works, filling it with sabbath rest and worship is not "necessarily" the automatic answer)
- because it is conspicuously not commanded in the NT among "necessary things" for Gentile believers or anywhere else
- because history records that Gentile believers from almost the earliest times were meeting on the 1st day of the week and indeed Eusebius records that the Ebionites met on the 1st day of the week as well as observing sabbath
- because the daylight shift around the globe gives rise to practical questions
- probably most importantly, because it is a law which "seals" the center of the ten commandments and this is a covenant that scripture indicates given only to Israel at Sinai
- because the new law is not written on stone but on hearts
- because it is a law which by nature is ceremonial and gives rise to questions of a practical nature,
(i.e. how do I do? and what do I do? when do I do? can i drive my car? should I ride a bike or walk? and we observe that many look to Jewish tradition for answers)
- it seems contrary to Pauls statement that points of law are vain to debate and useless (Titus 3:9)
LonelySheep wrote:
52 years ago
Are we only desirous of keeping that which is "convenient?"
Convenience is not really the question. For example, we could equally ask - are we working secular jobs and having families because it is "convenient"? Is the reason we are not all going to the public square with a megaphone or knocking on doors because it is "convenient"? Is it inconvenient to be circumcised? etc. This type of argument is used to strong arm someones conscience into doing something within many denominations just "because". Inconvenience does not define whether something is right or not.
LonelySheep wrote:
52 years ago
This raises yet another question, "Why did the early Apostles & disciples keep the Sabbath if it wasn't required of them?"
The apostles and earliest believers were all Jews and the scripture says of both Jesus and Paul regarding synagogue on sabbath - "as was his custom" (Luke 4:16, Acts 17:2). In fact Paul also said to the Ephesians "I must attend this feast in Jerusalem", which is often cited as evidence by some that the Israelite feast days are required, but the Ephesians were not at all going with Paul to Jerusalem. So without an explicit instruction or commentary on this question anywhere in the NT ... ?

LonelySheep
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Re: Are The Ten Commandments For Christians?

#20 Post by LonelySheep » 5 years ago

Thanks for your thoughts, Joel. Just so you know, those quotes that show up as mine were Amos responding to my quotes. I'm still trying to reach a conclusion myself. I do believe that if Christians honor the Sabbath it should be in principle, not by regulations. I think there are some indications that it was practiced before Moses codified it, and that is what I am thinking of. To get bogged down by regulations would be a return to the law which would not be beneficial.

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