Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

This is the place to discuss anything to do with scriptural doctrine. It is the primary purpose of this site, and most discussions will be here.
Forum rules
Matt 18:6; Eccl 7:9; 1 Pet 4:8 (If you're not sure what they say then please hover over them with your mouse or look them up in your own Bible before posting)
Message
Author
Dajo1
Posts: 345
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#21 Post by Dajo1 » 2 years ago

Here is the quote from the simplified WT. Referring to Joshua 1:1, 2, one Bible reference book says that one of the most difficult and dangerous times for a nation, whether in the past or today, is when one leader replaces another.
How did you find out that reference work Bobcat? I typed the exact phrase from the standard mag, not the simplified version.. and I didn't get a hit for that book on Amazon. I'm jealous of your methods. :geek: I tried with Google and Bing.
Maybe something to do with my location down under?
Anyway doesn't matter. I wonder why the Study article didn't actually say where the quote was from. (I know the answer to that... Duh!).
All that said:. I am starting to feel Anglo/America is KoN not KoS. Hey both their leaders are in a somewhat dicey situation with UK deploying extra military for finals of Brexit and Trumps rule seems to be getting more fragile.

Bobcat
Posts: 3316
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#22 Post by Bobcat » 2 years ago

Hi Dajo,

For finding the WT quote, I first went to Google Books, then typed in the quote there. I got the hit right away. Sometimes, though, it is not so easy. In this instance I included quotation marks around the quote.

I think they don't want the R&F taking the liberty of reading in non-WT publications. Every once in a while they will say where the quote is from, but not too often anymore. It's like they are 'circling the wagons' or 'buttoning down the hatches' so to speak.

The older pubs like the SI book used to be freer in their giving references for quotes. It probably resulted in too many questions from the R&F. So plagiarism seems to have been the simple solution to that problem.

Another problem it 'solves' is that it allows one to extract words without citing the whole context. It also allows quoting from questionable sources. For example, years back the WT quoted from an Italian(?) magazine or newspaper that was making some point about earthquakes. Turns out, the source was quoting from the WT. But the WT made it out that this was something outside sources were agreeing with them on. ("Oh what tangled webs that we weave!")

To counter the problems these methods might create, the WT assures its readers that they always do thorough research, in contrast to worldly sources. If you really trust 'God's channel' you will leave it at that. :whistle:

Bobcat

Bobcat
Posts: 3316
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#23 Post by Bobcat » 2 years ago

Incidentally, see post # 27, 28 & 29 here, which has a further thought on the post above.

Bobcat.

Bobcat
Posts: 3316
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#24 Post by Bobcat » 1 year ago

The WT Study for November 24, 2019 has the article, “Come to Me, … and I Will Refresh You”. Paragraph 5 refers to the elders as "gifts in men" which is the NWT rendering in Eph 4:8.

For any interested, here and here are some discussion about that rendering and its implications.

And here is the discussion of the WT Study article on the BP site which also has some discussion of Eph 4:8 and the WT's application of it.


Bobcat

Bobcat
Posts: 3316
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#25 Post by Bobcat » 1 year ago

Things found while I was supposed to be listening to the meetings . . .

The similarity between Jesus' words at Mt 11:28-30 and Jer 31:25 which is leading up to the announcement of a new covenant.


Bobcat

Stranger
Posts: 1901
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#26 Post by Stranger » 1 year ago

Bobcat wrote:
1 year ago
Things found while I was supposed to be listening to the meetings . . .

The similarity between Jesus' words at Mt 11:28-30 and Jer 31:25 which is leading up to the announcement of a new covenant.

Hi Bobcat,

That's what I call using your time wisely, the only time wasted was your drive time, unless of course you got someone looking over your shoulder at the meeting. :heel:


Stranger, (2Chr 24:19)

Bobcat
Posts: 3316
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#27 Post by Bobcat » 1 year ago

Greetings Stranger,
unless of course you got someone looking over your shoulder at the meeting. :heel:
Actually, I showed this one to my wife and she wrote it down.

But it's like Jesus is so thoroughly ingrained with the scriptures that he can't but help to incorporate them into what he says.

On the other hand, it is interesting that neither the WT nor the Reference NWT have Jer 31:25 listed anywhere in connection with Mt 11:28-30.

If you did connect Jer 31:25 with Mt 11:28-30 it would mean that the 'refreshment', "rest" and 'light burden' that Jesus was offering would be associated with getting into the new covenant. The WT can't have any of that for its R&F.


Bobcat

lynchpin
Posts: 129
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#28 Post by lynchpin » 1 year ago

Hello Bobcat,

what you"ve mentioned regarding the connection between Jer 31:25 and Mt 11:28-30 is a surprise to me - definitely something that's been hidden as you've said.

I'm aware of all the arguments put up by the Watchtower as to gaining access to the New covenant except this one.
Would you enlarge further about this? Maybe a link (a here) :roll: or even if you explain it further yourself.

Others here I'm sure could be equally intrigued to learn more.


Regards

Bobcat
Posts: 3316
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#29 Post by Bobcat » 1 year ago

Hi Lynchpin,

I found the reference to Jer 31:25 in Constable's Notes on Mt 11:28 at NetBible.Org. Here is the full quote from the commentary on Mt 11:28-30
Mt 11:28 This invitation recalls Jeremiah 31:25 where Yahweh offered His people rest in the New Covenant. The weary are those who have struggled long and toiled hard. The heavy-laden are those who stagger under excessive burdens.
“The one [term] implies toil, the other endurance. The one refers to the weary search for truth and for relief from a troubled conscience; the other refers to the heavy load of observances that give no relief, and perhaps also the sorrow of life, which, apart from the consolations of a true faith, are so crushing.”[544]
Jesus, the revealer of God, invites those who feel their need for help they cannot obtain themselves to come to Him (cf. Mt 5:3; Rev. 22:17). Israel’s spiritual leaders had loaded the people with burdens that were heavy to bear. The rest in view involves kingdom rest (cf. Heb. 4), but it is a present reality too.

Throughout Israel’s history God held out the promise of rest if His people would trust and obey Him. The Promised Land was to be the scene of this rest. However, when Israel entered Canaan under Joshua’s leadership, she enjoyed rest there only partially due to limited trust and obedience. As her history progressed, she lost much rest through disobedience. Now Jesus as her Messiah promised that the rest she had longed for for centuries could be hers if she humbly came to Him. He provided this rest for anyone in Israel who came to Him in humble trust.[545] He will provide this rest for Israel in the future in the Promised Land. This will take place when He returns to earth to establish His kingdom.


Mt 11:29-30 The yoke that farmers put on their oxen is a metaphor for the discipline of discipleship. This is not the yoke of the Mosaic Law but the yoke of discipleship to Jesus. Learning from Him involves assimilating what He reveals, not just imitating Him or learning from His experience.
Jesus is not only the authoritative revealer. He is also the humble Servant of the Lord. He deals gently with the weak (cf. Mt 18:1-10; 19:13-15). Jesus quoted Jeremiah 6:16, a passage that pointed to Him. The yoke of discipleship may involve persecution, but it is easy (good and comfortable). His burden is light compared to the loads Israel’s religious leaders imposed on their disciples.

“. . . what makes the difference is what sort of master one is serving.”[546]
Israel’s unbelief is a strong theme in this chapter. We can see it in John’s question (Mt 11:1-15), in Jesus’ generation (Mt 11:16-19), in the cities of Galilee (Mt 11:20-24), and in the proud wise (Mt 11:25-30).[547]

When I get a chance I'll post whatever else I find on the connection between Mt 11:28 and Jer 31:25.


Bobcat

AmosAu3
Posts: 440
Joined: 1 year ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#30 Post by AmosAu3 » 1 year ago

Hi Bobcat,

An excellent pickup again.

I'm just on my way out for the day, but will post some thoughts & scriptures that I'm sure will support the connection between the 2 passages.

I'm like Lynchpin, very interested in your insights.

Regards, Amos.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 23 guests