Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

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Bobcat
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Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#11 Post by Bobcat » 5 years ago

Here is Andere Stimme's review on the BP site of the WT Study for August 17-23, 2015, "Live in Harmony with the Model Prayer – Part 1."

Some additional thoughts on the article:

Par. 1:
. . . the Lord's Prayer . . .
R. T. France, in the NICNT-Matthew commentary noted that the prayer could be properly referred to as "the disciples prayer," in contrast to John 17, which is more aptly "the Lord's [Jesus'] prayer."

Par. 4:
Anointed Christians, who have been begotten as God’s sons with heavenly life in view, rightly address Jehovah as “Father” in the fullest sense. (Rom. 8:15-17) Christians whose hope is to live forever on earth can also address Jehovah as “Father.” He is their Life-Giver, and he lovingly provides for the needs of all true worshippers. Those with this earthly hope will in the fullest sense become God’s children after they have reached perfection and have proved their loyalty in the final test.—Rom. 8:21; Rev. 20:7, 8.
Several points of interest here: The term "anointed Christians" is never used in the NT. In fact, it is somewhat of a tautology. (See the breakdown of the Greek word group that includes "anoint" here.)

Christians receive the promised spirit in response to their faith in Jesus (Acts 2:38, 39; Gal 3:14). Were a "Christian" without this, he would "not belong" to God (Rom 8:9). At least, that is how Paul saw things.

Notice Jesus' statements in the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5:3-10. Mt 5:3, 10, which frame the 'beatitudes,' state that the "Kingdom of the Heavens" belong to such ones. Matthew 5:8 states that the peacemakers "will be called sons of God." Even resurrected ones become "children of God" upon being resurrected (Luke 20:34-36) But the WT grants no such hope to most.

The quoted statement in the WT is patently false.

Par. 6:
. . . they are doing God’s will in the full-time service.
This statement will raise nary an eyebrow among most JWs, a testament to the mental conditioning the WT has engaged in. But it is an example of how the WT has created "class distinctions" among Christians (Jas 2:1-9). Are not all of Jesus' disciples to "keep following him"? (Mt 16:24) Are not all disciples "brothers"? (Mt 23:10-12) Does not the "great crowd" 'render [God] sacred service day and night in his temple'? (Rev 7:15) And the 144,000 "keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes." (Rev 14:4) Where is there any place for a "part-time" servant of God and Christ?

Par. 12:
When the time approached for God’s Kingdom in the hands of Jesus to start ruling from heaven, Jehovah helped his people to understand the timing of events.
Really? Does it even matter what the NT says? For example, Col 1:13 has Jesus already with a kingdom given to him by God. Heb 1:5-8 has Jesus already with a "throne." Heb 2:5-9 twice refers to Jesus as already "crowned."

So, who was it, in the 1800s, that "helped" C. T. Russell & friends to "understand" that Jesus was not yet ruling? It wasn't the NT that "helped" him.
The article linked the “seven times” of Daniel’s prophecy with “the appointed times of the nations” spoken of by Jesus.—Dan. 4:16; Luke 21:24.
At least this is a true statement: "The article" has to do the linking of the "seven times" of Dan 4 to "the appointed times of the nations" of Luke 21:24. It had to. The Bible does no such linking of these two things.

Par. 13:
Thus [in 1914] “the sign” [about wars, food shortages, and pestilences] that Jesus had given to identify his invisible presence as earth’s new King started to be fulfilled.
Matthew 24:4-7 says that these things are NOT an indication of the end. He also said that some would use these things to "mislead" people. Jesus also said that his "presence" would be visible to all (Mt 24:23-28). There is no "invisible presence" of Jesus. And again, Jesus indicated in those verses that an invisible or hidden "presence" would be the idea of those trying to mislead Christians.

Also, were pervasive war, food shortages, and pestilences new to the 20th century so as to indicate something had changed in human history? What about the Dark Ages?



Par. 15
But today we are privileged to be alive at a time when about eight million Witnesses not only are praying for God’s will to take place on earth but also are striving to live in harmony with that prayer. They do so by their way of life and by having a zealous share in the disciple-making work.
So, each and every one of JWs are "striving to live in harmony with that prayer" and "do[ing] so by their way of life and by having a zealous share in the disciple-making work." And no one else among any other Christians are doing so.

It really makes one wonder how detrimental to ones' spiritual health regular reading of the WT could be. (1Co 10:12)

Bobcat

leaving_quietly
Posts: 761
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#12 Post by leaving_quietly » 5 years ago

Par 4:
The expression "our Father," not "my Father," reminds us that we belong to an "association of brothers" who truly love one another.
I have no issue with first part of the statement, but I beg to differ on the last five words. Regardless, this paragraph starts off by detracting from all of us viewing God as "our Father" and it shamelessly continues on by saying that only the Anointed Christians can address Jehovah as "Father" in the fullest sense. The rest of us schmucks have to wait until after the final test after the thousand years. Only then will God become our Father in the fullest sense. This is pure garbage. I'm sorry. This paragraph really irritates me.

Par 12:
In 1876, an article written by Charles Taze Russell was published in the magazine Bible Examiner. That article, "Gentile Times: When Do They End?," pointed to 1914 as a significant year. The article linked the "seven times" of Daniel's prophecy with "the appointed times of the nations" spoken of by Jesus."
Here is the link to the scanned PDF of the article.

Noteworthy, the article says:
Jesus does not foretell its treading underfoot of the Gentiles, as Rome had her foot upon them at that time.
I wonder how much of a Greek scholar C.T. Russell was. The Greek work "estai" used in the phrase "Jerusalem will be trodden down" is in the FUTURE tense. Jesus ABSOLUTELY was foretelling this. This one tiny fact blows the entire link between Jerusalem's destruction in 607 and 1914 out of the water. (607 not being a correct date notwithstanding... one does not need to disprove that to disprove the 2520 years prophecy.)

This article addresses 90% of the doctrinal issues I have. If I brought all my notes on this to the meeting and started commenting, I think I'd be hauled into the back room faster than you could blink.

Bobcat
Posts: 3316
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#13 Post by Bobcat » 5 years ago

Good points LQ. And thanks for the Bible Examiner link.

Bobcat

apollos0fAlexandria
Posts: 3333
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Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#14 Post by apollos0fAlexandria » 5 years ago

Thanks Bobcat, Andere and LQ for some thought provoking comments and research on this article. I found it very helpful indeed.

Apollos

leaving_quietly
Posts: 761
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#15 Post by leaving_quietly » 5 years ago

I must have a built-in mental block with Bible research. It dawned on me for the very first time today that Luke 21:24 is in the parallel account to Matthew 24. It's part of the sign of the last days. In context, it makes no sense that it had a past start. Just go back to verse 5 and 6, especially verse 6: "he said: “As for these things that you now see, the days will come when not a stone will be left upon a stone and not be thrown down."

Then verses 20-21. Note, I am adding comments here about the events in relation to when they would be fulfilled per Jesus in accord with WTBTS doctrine. Does it make sense to you?
However, when you see (FUTURE) Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know (FUTURE) that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then (FUTURE) let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing (FUTURE) to the mountains, let those in the midst of her leave (FUTURE), and let those in the countryside not enter (FUTURE) into her, 22 because these are days for meting out justice in order that all the things written may be fulfilled (FUTURE). 23 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! (FUTURE) For there will be (FUTURE) great distress on the land and wrath against this people. 24 And they will fall (FUTURE) by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be (PAST????) trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled (~600 YEARS IN THE PAST FROM WHEN THESE WORDS WERE SPOKEN THROUGH FAR DISTANT FUTURE???).
The more I look at this, the more I realize just how strange the WTBTS doctrines are.

Bobcat
Posts: 3316
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#16 Post by Bobcat » 5 years ago

Notes for the WT Study conducted on 1/3/16 from the w15 11/15 article pages 3-7 entitled: Train Your Children to Serve Jehovah.

there were two unreferenced quotes in the article:

Par.7 Footnote - The quote is from the IBSA Vol 1, page 3.

Par.12 The quote can be found here. Roman Life and Manners Under the Early Empire, Vol 2 page 92.

Bobcat

Buster
Posts: 78
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#17 Post by Buster » 5 years ago

My good friend BobCat, I know you gotta love that in about three weeks when the watchtower is talking about the Bible, or really how the NWT translation bible is Awesome, I added that part., anyway in the the Article in three weeks, they have a RSV quote which they totally cut up the quote, and they try to lie about other translation's ....Amazing, Spiritual food indeed

Bobcat
Posts: 3316
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#18 Post by Bobcat » 5 years ago

Buster,

Thanks for the tip. I'll have to check it out.

As for the 'praise' the WT likes to heap on the NWT, thee verses might be appropriate: Pr 25:27; 27:2

As it is, I do like some things about the rNWT, and miss some things that were in the old one. See this thread.

Bobcat

Buster
Posts: 78
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#19 Post by Buster » 5 years ago

My friend it gets great, first off in the Decembet 15,2015 for the February 1-7, 2016

On paragraph 15 it says I quote " In 1919, a small group of bible students was appointed as " the faithful slave communicated with Gods People mostly in English".......wait a minute I ready the finished mystery and the watchtowers of 1916 when good old Pyramid boy Russell died and he was the faithful slave to about the late 20's and near 30's. So I guess more Truth be thrown about.
The next week article the JW try to use those good old........ I love me some ..... On paragraph 4 they talk about the 1952 RSV bible and in the front they talk about not using Jehovah, but the watchtower cuts the thing to pieces, in the simplified version of the watchtower it says the RSV bible says entirely inappropriate " to uses God Name. In the regular Watchtower it says this Wisdow. " The use of any proper name for the one and only God ... Is entirely inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church. "

But this is what the RSV bible says in full context.

"For two reasons the Committee has returned to the more familiar usage of the King James Version: (1) the word “Jehovah” does not accurately represent any form of the Name ever used in Hebrew; and (2) the use of any proper name for the one and only God, as though there were other gods from whom He had to be distinguished, was discontinued in Judaism before the Christian era and is entirely inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church.

So we all know there is no way they ain't gonna put point 1, but to deceive about point 2 is pure garbage. Cause when you read it the JW it looks and sounds who gave them ( RSV) right to take out gods name. Now we can agree or not but put the whole quote. But hey JW have the Tr...the woops I did what they did.

Great work my friend Bobcat. :D

Bobcat
Posts: 3316
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Watchtower Study: Research, Notes, & Comments

#20 Post by Bobcat » 2 years ago

In the Study WT of Oct 2018 (p. 22 par.2; studied on 12/23/18) it makes the quote:
In both ancient and modern times a transition of leadership is one of the most precarious times in the security of a state.
Here is where the quote is from.

In case anyone is more interested in this reference work, see here.

Bobcat

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