Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

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AmosAU
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#11 Post by AmosAU » 7 months ago

Hi CI,

In talking about the different calendars, It does sem very logical to think that the calendar will return to its original 360 day length. I've been looking into this for several years now, and there is sufficient evidence that this will occur.

Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away."
5 And he who was seated on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." Also he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."
6 And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment.

I believe it only stands to reason that if our Father is going to make all things new, again, it would include bringing OR rather restoring everything, including the calendar, back to His original creation status.

Regards, Amos.

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#12 Post by coccus ilicis » 6 months ago

[
QuestionsFromReaders wrote: 7 months ago
AmosAU wrote: 7 months ago Hi CI,
In talking about the different calendars, It does seem very logical to think that the calendar will return to its original 360-day length. I've been looking into this for several years now, and there is sufficient evidence that this will occur ...I believe it only stands to reason that if our Father is going to make all things new, again, it would include bringing OR rather restoring everything, including the calendar, back to His original creation status. Regards, Amos.
I agree.
The lunar cycles created by God must be held to and respected
Hello, QuestionFromReaders,
Welcome,

I also agree with you and with Amos, but as I said we'll have to wait and see what happens. How often have people been wrong about the future, as the saying goes: the best-laid plans of mice and men. The same can be said about the rendering of the Bible into English, i.e. to make it readable so that people will understand it. Jehovah paints with broad brushstrokes that stretch from the beginning of the universe to life 'to time indefinite,' for man. It is humans who have painted in the detail. A great chunk of the OT and NT is the detail of what different ones did or failed to do, i.e. when Aaron made an image of Hathor and they started worshipping it. At that time Jehovah was prepared to start all over again with Moses. That is why no one knows the day or hour of Jesus's return because the timing of that depends on what humans are up to. What if everyone suddenly put on sackcloth and ashes as the people of Nineveh did, (Jon 3:5), its unlikely, but if it did happen, would the great reckoning that God has with the nations be postponed, (Jer 25:31)? Yes, it would,

It's us short-lived humans, the blades of grass that are here today and gone tomorrow, that constantly fret about time.

Jehovah's purpose is to bring about a new heaven and earth in which righteousness dwells. That is his primary goal for the earth and all life on it and in it. And if I am right then we are at the cusp of that change, the time when the light of the Son of Man's presence is spreading from east to west like lightning, (Mt 24:27), and I focus on that. Whether the earth will return to a 360 day year is on the back burner for now. Thinking about that I can't recall a single verse where is says the earth would go on forever, all Jehovah said concerning the earth was: ... "Never again shall I call down evil upon the ground on man's account, because the inclination of the heart of man is bad from his youth up, never again shall I deal every living thing a blow just as I have done. For all the days the earth continues, seed sowing and harvest, cold and heat, and summer in winter, day and night will never cease," (Gen 8:21,22). We don't know what will happen to planet earth but what we do know is that Jehovah does not destroy it nor will man be allowed to destroy it because a great crowd out of all nations survives the great tribulation. (Mt 24:15-22; Rev 7:13). And I am convinced that the preservation of the early manuscripts is not a coincidence but they were specifically preserved for this time, ( (Rev 10:7; Dan 12:4,8,9}.

Wallace, in listing the different phases of modern language translations said in the video in post 7 here that we are now in the period when accuracy is more important than fine prose or readability, before saying that NWT is the 'Most slavishly literal word for word translation that there is. I also think that the worldwide availability of the NWT is no mere coincidence, it was needed to make those waking up realize they had to re-examine what the Bible actually does say.

Let us do that with one crucial misunderstood verse, namely Rev 1:3, … Happy is the one reading and those hearing the words of this prophecy, and keeping/observing the words written in it, for the appointed time is near. This verse has baffled many ever since John wrote what he heard and saw. Clues within the text tell us the original account was in Hebrew, which was then translated into Greek. Wallace also says in his video, (link above), that a word in one language does not have an exact equivalent in another. Which I discovered when I did a brief stint as a language stylist for the Russian Academy of Sciences, which publishes scientific research papers in English science journals.

So let's go back to the OT an see where the underlined bolded words of Rev 1:3 are used in the OT to understand their connotation - Google: the idea or feeling which a word invokes for a person in addition to its literal or primary meaning of the word.

Isa 29:11 is addressed to Ariel, the lioness of God which is to become the altar hearth of God ... And it must occur in an instant, suddenly ...Linger you men and be amazed, blind yourselves and be blinded. They have become intoxicated ... but not because of liquor. For Jehovah has poured out a spirit of deep sleep and he closes your eyes ... And for you men, the vision of everything becomes like the words of a book that has been sealed up, [cf. Rev 10:4], which they give to someone knowing the writing, saying, "Read this, please," and he has to say: "I do not know this writing at all, (Isa 29:9-12). Such has been the case with reading and understanding Revelation, it was sealed until the things therein are observed.

Zeph 1:14 ...The great day of Jehovah is near and there is a hurrying of it very much. And Zeph 3:1-20...Woe to her that is rebelling the oppressive city. (vs 2) ... She did not listen/hear his voice she did not accept discipline. (vs 8) ... Therefore keep yourself in expectation of me, [cf. Dan12:12]. (vs 9) ... For then I shall give to peoples the change to a pure language. [vs 12] ... And I shall certainly let remain , [cf. Rev 12:17], in the midst of you a people humble and lowly, and they will actually take refuge in the name of Jehovah. (vs 20)... at that time, [cf. Rev 1:3], I shall bring you people in, even in the time of collecting you together. The pure language is what Wallace calls a literal translation, it is the very best we can do when rendering the original text into our language.

No doubt John recalled these verses and others when he heard what Jesus said. So, yes, we can be thankful for the NWT. They didn't get it all right because it was not the time when these things were observed. But they chose an apt name for their organization. The Hebrew word for observed 5341, natsar also means watch, e.g. as at (2Ki 18:8) ... from the tower of the watchmen clear to the fortified cities. And Job refers to Jehovah as a watcher of men ... what have I done to You, O watcher of men, (Jb 7:20).

Therefore … Happy is the one reading and those hearing the words of this prophecy, and observing the words written in it for the appointed time is near, (Rev 1:3).
LRW~

Kosonen
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#13 Post by Kosonen » 6 months ago

I think the situation in the world shows that we are very near the time when people will be put under compulsion to get the mark of the beast in order to be able to buy or sell. The new world authority who will be responsible for that will then be very active for 42 months as stated in Revelation 13.
I am waiting to hear news about the name of that beast and how to calculate its number 666.

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#14 Post by coccus ilicis » 6 months ago

Kosonen wrote: 6 months ago I think the situation in the world shows that we are very near the time when people will be put under compulsion to get the mark of the beast in order to be able to buy or sell. The new world authority who will be responsible for that will then be very active for 42 months as stated in Revelation 13.
I am waiting to hear news about the name of that beast and how to calculate its number 666.
Hello Konsonen,

I agree we are now in the time of the 8th beast and so much of what is written concerning this time period is now understood. The WT org, got the ball rolling but they were still in the dark about many things. The present must be our focus.

The lamb-like beast makes all the earth worship/submit to the beast the harlot rides, the one whose death-stroke got healed, namely Israel. This happened in 1945. It did this by nuking Nagasaki and Hiroshima. After which people said " Who is like the beast and who can do battle with it, (Rev 13:4). And then this pseudo-Christian/lamb-like beast misled the earth's inhabitants into making an image of Isreal, the beast that had the sword stroke healed, (Rev 13:14,15).

In what way was the image of the beast an image of Israel? Unlike other peoples that have been dispersed, Jews didn't blend in but retained their national status. How did they manage to do this?
Jews in Africa Part IV - The Islamic Diaspora . They were among the estimated 50,000 obdurate Jews who refused to convert to Islam and were slaughtered. Artisans and tradesmen had likewise been a large segment of the thousands of convertees; many were, however, unable to continue their disciplines because, as Moslems, they could no longer engage in activities considered too demeaning for Moslem participation ...
Inasmuch as Judaic artisans and traders proved to be indispensable to the economic stability of the region, they were invited back; thereafter Jews remained entrenched throughout North Africa ...One example of this process involves the foundation of Kairawan ("The Camp"), which became the capital of Afriqiya, the country known today as Tunisia. The Caliph ordered the governor of Egypt to send there a thousand Jewish and Coptic families. The Jews were to supply the productive and commercial backbone of the region, whereas the Copts were to displace the Byzantine Christians. Kairawan burgeoned to become largely a Judaic community and a notable center of Judaic learning ... Kairawan also became one of the important stops for Jewish travelers.2 Just as merchants would stop off at Kairawan before continuing towards Spain or before transferring their goods to ships plying the narrow water-route which went to Sicily and southern Italy, so scholars and their cargo of knowledge used the city as the halfway house between Babylonia, Egypt and Palestine to the lands of western Europe.
.

So they concentrated on the production of goods and trade by means of a trusted network. They couldn't carry payment from one place to another so they used promissory notes of exchange and kept records of who owed what to whom. It was a form of crony trading, the precursor to Crony capitalism
Crony capitalism, sometimes called Cronyism, is an economic system in which businesses thrive not as a result of free enterprise, but rather as a return on money amassed through collusion between a business class and the political class. This is often achieved by the manipulation of relationships with state power by business interests rather than unfettered competition in obtaining permits, government grants, tax breaks, or other forms of state intervention.

It was first introduced in 1944 by means of the Bretton Woods system
Preparing to rebuild the international economic system while World War II was still being fought, 730 delegates from all 44 Allied nations gathered at the Mount Washington Hotel in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, United States, for the United Nations Monetary and Financial Conference, also known as the Bretton Woods Conference ... Setting up a system of rules, institutions, and procedures to regulate the international monetary system, these accords established the IMF and the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (IBRD), which today is part of the World Bank Group. The United States, which controlled two-thirds of the world's gold, insisted that the Bretton Woods system rest on both gold and the US dollar ...On 15 August 1971, the United States unilaterally terminated convertibility of the US dollar to gold, effectively bringing the Bretton Woods system to an end and rendering the dollar a fiat currency. From that time onward the value of every currency depended on the US dollar. Putting it another way, how many ¥ yuan, roubles, AUD UKP etc, are needed to buy one US dollar. Thus not only does the harlot create the money, but also holds the purse strings.

After giving breath to the image of the beast it caused to be killed all those who would not in any way worship/submit to the image of the beast, (Rev 13:15) Any one that did not abide by the market rules was locked out by means of sanctions.

What Are Sanctions?
Image

This is old history. Since then BRICS has been busy setting up an alternative that keeps the USD out of the loop. The member countries, namely Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa have agreements where they exchange goods in their own currencies

BRICS update BRICS Latest Update – 13th Summit of BRICS took place on 9th September 2021. India was the host of the XIII BRICS Summit ... BRICS is an acronym for 5 emerging economies of the world viz. – Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa. The first BRIC summit took place in the year 2009 in Yekaterinburg (Russia). In 2010, South Africa formally joined the association making it BRICS.
These are the rumours that disturb the King of the North, (Dan 11:40,44).

All this has already happened, the 8th beast exists and its horns/kings/members do not agree with the monetary system as it is. And their sole purpose in joining this last beast that the harlot rides is to overthrow her power, to make her desolate and naked, (Rev 17:11, 12, 13, 16,17).

So with this in mind let's tackle the three numbers 600, 60, 6. Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the beast, (Rev 13:18).

Calculate is a Greek word that only occurs in two places in the Greek Apostolic interlinear of the Old and New Testament. ψηφίζω pséphizó 5585 To tally lots, or beads on a Graeco-Roman abacus; to vote by lot, count ballots, number, at Lk 14:28; Rev 13:18. Corresponding Heb. words are similar in meaning and have a wide application. At Lu 14:28 Jesus said: “For example, who of you that wants to build a tower does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it?” (Lu 14: 28). This is the applicable meaning of it at Rev 13:18. It's all about money, how much something costs and what will the market operator's cut be on each trade.

So before building our tower let's calculate the cost. One could add up the costs, 600 + 60 + 6 = 666. But when building one calculates the cost by multiplying, i.e. we might need 6 layers of 60 times 600 stone blocks to build our tower.
6x60x600=216,000 or reversed 600x60x6=216,000. Just to make sure we've calculated it right,let's divide 216000 / 600 / 60 / 6 = 1
If the stone cutter charges $1 per block they will cost $216,000. That's a fair deal.

But the image beast's marketplace is not about people getting a fair deal, it's all about making money for its operators and how much of that ultimately goes into the harlot's purse. There is another figure that is very similar to the $216,000 cost of our tower, namely the earth's circumference.
In modern times, Earth's circumference has been used to define fundamental units of measurement of length: the nautical mile in the seventeenth century and the metre in the eighteenth. Earth's polar circumference is very near to 21600 nautical miles because the nautical mile was intended to express one minute of latitude (see meridian arc), which is 21,600 partitions of the polar circumference Wikipedia, (bold and underline mine).
Image

Mmm! Is it just an interesting coincidence, or might there be more to it? Let's divide it by the 600, 60, 6 set of numbers and see what happens.
21600 / 600 = 36
36 / 60 = 0.6
0.6 / 6 = 0.1
I'm not a numbers person, so please feel free to correct me. But it appears that in this man-made order of things, the stonecutter must pay the beast the harlot rides, 9 cents for every $1 block he sells This adds up to a whopping $194,400 on this deal, with the stone cutter only getting $21,600 for all his hard work.

It's only a bit of fun, but I don't think the comparison is far off from reality. There are numerous references to six hundred, sixty and six in the bible usually in a negative context. Seven is the number of completion and Eight is superfluous. The 8th beast the harlot currently rides is to remain for a short while before it goes off into destruction, (Rev 17:11). Yes, her duplicitous image beast has served her well, impoverishing the people, and making sure she rules supreme (Rev 18:7) and in the process destroying the earth.

People are waking up and wanting change. Here is another StartUp that is starting up as an alternative to the WEF/the 8th beast, The great awakening agenda. But we don't need more man-made world government schemes. We've been there and done that too many times. Jehovah has it all in hand, the kings/stakeholders of the 8th beast must first fulfil their mission. these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked ... For God put it in their heart to carry out his decision, even to carry out their decision by giving their kingdom to the beast until the words of God will have been accomplished, (Rev 17:16,17). It's all going according to plan.
LRW~

johnamos2.0
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#15 Post by johnamos2.0 » 6 months ago

Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time
In answer, about to kick off the event that will lead to the events that will then lead to giving the beast its 42-month authority.

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#16 Post by coccus ilicis » 6 months ago

johnamos2.0 wrote: 6 months ago
Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time
In answer, about to kick off the event that will lead to the events that will then lead to giving the beast its 42-month authority.
Hello johnamos2.0, but what is that event?

Today we find ourselves in that same unenviable position as Russell and others were at the brink of WW1. WW1 had been planned for many years and was the war to end all wars, the great tribulation before the return of the Son of Man. Now more than a hundred years later we are again at the brink of the great tribulation and ask ourselves if we have got it right this time.

What do you mean when you say
to kick off the event that will lead to the events that will then lead to giving the beast its 42-month authority
I don't think the Bible says how long the 8th beast has authority (Rev 17:11). At Dan 7:25 it says concerning the audacious horn which displaces three of the ten horns, that times and Law would be given into its hand for a time, times and half a time. This, as far as I can tell, has already begun, it started with Covid lockdowns.

The WEF forum began as a little horn in 1971, (Dan 7:20,24,25), see WEF Timeline. It is a forum for world leaders where they discuss the need to change the way the world is run, i.e. to change times and law, (Dan 7:25). If you scroll through the dates on the left of the site to 2020 and click on the learn more link, you will see that this is now a great horn that is implementing its plan to change times and law. So according to their schedule, the count of a time, times and half a time is already underway.

The forty-two months refers to the holy city being trampled underfoot, during which time the two witnesses prophesy in sackcloth, (Rev 11:2). Their prophesying in sackcloth comes to an end after 1260 days, (Rev 11:3,7,11), but the exact start date for their prophesying is unknown, so we cannot say when it ends or whether it has already ended. Their witnessing and being silenced corresponds to Dan 9:27. So there is a measure of uncertainty that is why it says at Dan 12:12 ...Happy is the one keeping in expectation and who reaches one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. So you see we are in a similar position of uncertainty as the brothers of the gov. body of WT were in 1914.

The only difference is that now the nation-state of Israel exists and is in turmoil, with the possibility of a nuclear war between Isreal and Iran/Persia very real, (Dan 10:12). Israel has a nuclear arsenal, and is prepared to use it: The State of Israel is widely believed to possess nuclear weapons. Estimates of Israel's stockpile range between 80 and 400 nuclear warheads, and the country is believed to possess the ability to deliver them in several methods, including by aircraft, as submarine-launched cruise missiles, and via the Jericho series of intermediate to intercontinental-range ballistic missiles ...Nuclear program start date: Unknown (estimated 1948 or 1949) Wikipedia. This is the current state of affairs, with a possible pre-emptive nuclear attack on Iran, which is referred to as plan C in the video.



So a nuclear strike on Iran could well be the kick-off event. Jesus said concerning Judea ...Therefore when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation,[/colour] [cf. Dan 9:27], standing in the holy place, let the reader use discernment, then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains, (Mt 24:15,16). The account at Luke replaces the disgusting thing with encamped armies ...when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, (Lu 21:20). What if Jesus said both at different times in reference to the same event. Jerusalem was anything but the holy place in the first century, nor is it today, and as the video shows Israel is surrounded by encamped armies and may use a nuclear strike to destroy the Iranian nuclear facility.
LRW~

johnamos2.0
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#17 Post by johnamos2.0 » 6 months ago

What do you mean when you say
Russia/Ukraine event

I don't think the Bible says how long the 8th beast has authority
Rev 17: 13 Rev 13:5

goghtherefore
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#18 Post by goghtherefore » 6 months ago

I do find different speculations interesting.

Daniel chapter 11 describes many details regarding the king of the north and king of the south, that, imo, do not fit with Israel being the king of the north.


imo...😎

.02, goghtherefore
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Luke 9:35

QuestionsFromReaders
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#19 Post by QuestionsFromReaders » 6 months ago

coccus ilicis wrote: 6 months ago The lamb-like beast makes all the earth worship/submit to the beast the harlot rides, the one whose death-stroke got healed, namely Israel. This happened in 1945. It did this by nuking Nagasaki and Hiroshima. After which people said " Who is like the beast and who can do battle with it, (Rev 13:4). And then this pseudo-Christian/lamb-like beast misled the earth's inhabitants into making an image of Isreal, the beast that had the sword stroke healed, (Rev 13:14,15).

In what way was the image of the beast an image of Israel? Unlike other peoples that have been dispersed, Jews didn't blend in but retained their national status. How did they manage to do this?
Maintaining a "national status" is not at all uncommon here in the U.S.

Note the American Indian. Are they also the "image of the beast"?

How did they manage to do this? With help.

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#20 Post by coccus ilicis » 6 months ago

johnamos2.0 wrote: 6 months ago
What do you mean when you say
Russia/Ukraine event

I don't think the Bible says how long the 8th beast has authority
Rev 17: 13 Rev 13:5
Hello johnamos2.0

You possibly have recent news headlines in mind. The Russia Ukraine thing has a long history and depending from which side you look at it, it will have a different scenario. Here's a rough summary. The Russian word ukraine means, 'Borderland,' it was the southeastern extremity of Russia. Russia historically consist of pockets of people of different ethnicity, one could compare it to America before Columbus. During the 2nd WW those in the west of Ukraine joined the Nazis and in the east, in Crimea remained communist. After communism's collapse, in the early 1990s, Ukraine was given autonomy. The current problem started when a colour revolution (revolutions instigated by western NGOs) overthrew the then democratically elected government which was aligned with Russia with one that favoured joining the EU. Those in the eastern part of Ukraine, in Crimea, did not agree with the overthrow and remained loyal to Russia. The overthrow of the government was orchestrated by oil interests because a Russian gas pipeline was to go through Ukraine to supply gas to the EU. The rest one hears or reads is hype covering the tracks of vested oil interests.

When U.S. security concerns are mentioned, it is always about money, primarily oil. Peak oil is hardly ever mentioned: Peak oil is the moment at which extraction of petroleum reaches a rate greater than that at any time in the past and starts to permanently decrease. It is related to the distinct concept of oil depletion; while global petroleum reserves are finite, the limiting factor is not whether the oil exists but whether it can be extracted economically at a given price Wikipedia.

Persia/Iran had God's support. The angelic warrior that appeared to Daniel said: as for me, in the first year of Darius the Mede I stood as a strengthener and fortress to him, Dan 11:1. After Persia, the prophecy speaks about two power blocks, the north and the south. This does not refer to their geographical location but is symbolic of two opposing power blocks that have existed at different times since then. Dan 11:44 says: And in the time of the end the king of the south will engage with him in a pushing and against him, the king of the north will storm. After the 2nd WW, 5 nations controlled world security, these were The permanent members of the United Nations Security Council ... the five sovereign states to whom the UN Charter of 1945 grants a permanent seat on the UN Security Council: China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States Wikipedia, (underline mine).

They had been allies during the war but after it, the king of the north and the king of the south engaged in a pushing, (Dan 11:40). This pushing was the cold war between the communist and capitalist block of countries. The USSR's 10-year occupation of Afghanistan bankrupted it, and that was the end of communist Russia and the end of the cold war. From that point onward, the U.S. ruled the roost at the U.N. security council. Of him it says ...and he will certainly flood into many lands and flood over and pass through. He will also enter into the land of Decoration, and there will be many lands that will be made to stumble, but these are the ones that will escape out of his hand, (Dan 11:40,41).

Image
You can see these are trouble spots where the U.S, and Russia have been active.

This king of the north the U.S. keeps thrusting his hand out against the lands and as regards the king of Egypt she will not prove to be an escapee. And he will actually rule over the hidden treasures of the gold and silver and over all the desirable things of Egypt, namely oil.
Did you know that in 2012 Egypt had a colour revolution, like that of Ukraine, that overthrew the then democratically elected president? The 2012–2013 Egyptian protests were part of the crisis in Egypt including the June 2013 protests, the July 2013 coup d'état, and part of the post-coup unrest. They saw varying opposition against three contiguous heads of state; namely, SCAF, Muslim Brotherhood, and the de facto ruling Egyptian Armed Forces Wikipedia. The same happened in Libya in 2011. And the Libyans and Ethiopians will be at his steps, (Dan 11:43).

But there will be reports that will disturb him, [the U.S.], out of the sun rising, [China], and out of the north,[Russia], (Dan 11:44). These reports are that these and other countries against whom the image beast has imposed sanctions have set up their own trading system that bypasses the USD, thereby threatening American security, i.e. if more countries follow suit American supremacy will collapse. As it is, with such a great portion of their GDP being absorbed by the military, the country's infrastructure is being neglected. List of countries by military expenditures

And he will go forth in a great rage in order to bring many to destruction. And he will plant his palatial tents, [military paraphanalia], in the midst of the seas and the holy mountain of Decoration, and he will have come all the way to his finish, (Dan 11:45).

Those in the know, believe the USA is on the Brink of a Terrible Civil War. That's where we are in the stream of time.
LRW~

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