Jehovah or Yehowah?

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Get out of her
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Re: Jehovah or Yehowah?

#51 Post by Get out of her » 2 years ago

Amos wrote:

Not picking on you brother, but as usual you use far to many words to make a simple statement, or two. You lost me after the 3rd paragraph.

Could you please make a simple statement who you believe the Gentiles to be. I really believe it isn't who we've been systematically force fed to believe they are.


I don't mean to be argumentative, but it seems to me that if Bible topics such as this were truly simple, for one thing we would not be having endless debates and discussions on them. This is not to mention the fact that Jesus clearly informed us that even the spirit anointed ones would find themselves in desperate need of being spiritually fed in these time frames immediately prior to another "coming" of the kingdom or renewal of the broken marriage covenant. (Mt 24:45 25:10, 34-40)

While much of what I write about on the scriptures does admittedly seem rather simple to me on at least some level, the Bible itself makes it quite clear that ultimately God's written word is comprised completely of "carefully concealed" "sacred secrets" which would be revealed ONLY by Jehovah's own prophets and only in his due time. (Col 2:3) (1 Cor 4:1) (Am 3:7) The reason I devote much effort to explaining and scripturally establishing my points is exactly BECAUSE people most often do not seem to find them simple or otherwise easy to understand and appreciate.

My last post amounted to what in reality was a very concise way of SCRIPTURALLY ESTABLISHING the fact that ultimately these "gentiles" the scriptures continually refer to are exactly what ALL OF US (even the spirit anointed) become IN A SPIRITUAL SENSE the moment that yet another "kingdom covenant" is violated with yet another act of spiritual adultery or "harlotry" on the part of the theocratic shepherds who become guilty of "leaving the holy covenant." (Da 11:30) You see our personal views or understandings on Bible topics do not amount to a hill of beans unless we can demonstrate scriptural support for them.

Since it is these covenants that establish the VERY EXISTENCE of the theocratic nation, when they are violated with spiritual harlotry, there is no longer SUCH A THING as Israel. (Which in this case would of course mean SPIRITUAL Israel) What NOW exists is the "GREAT CITY (Re 17:18) which in a SPIRITUAL sense is called Sodom and Egypt, WHERE THEIR LORD WAS ALSO IMPALED." (Re 11:8) This means that until the moment this broken covenant is renewed with repentant ones who HAD BEEN from this nation and subsequently inaugurated with blood atonement just as demonstrated for us also in 33 CE, ALL OF US will remain as "SPIRITUAL" foreigners or "gentiles." (Lu 22:29) (Mt 28:18, 19) (He 9:16-18)

This is exactly the reason that even the spirit anointed ones who are cleansed and reinstalled as theocratic shepherds of this "re-born" or "re-created" nation are represented in the scriptures with prophetic pictures such as a "leprous" "SYRIAN" army chief who experiences "seven" of these baptisms or spiritual cleansings. (2 Ki 5:14) (Yet another symbolic/prophetic reference to the "seven times" that this kingdom covenant would be violated with spiritual adultery and thus require these spiritual cleansings)

When these broken covenants are renewed on the other hand, " there is NEITHER GREEK NOR JEW, circumcision nor uncircumcision, foreigner, Scythian, slave, freeman; but Christ is ALL things and in ALL." (Col 3:11) In other words, when TRUE Christianity ACTUALLY EXISTS or otherwise the kingdom has once again "come," regardless of what literal/fleshly nation or what nationality someone may come from, ANYONE who now qualifies or subsequently BECOMES qualified as officially being among this reborn nation is now either a spiritual "Jew" or a spiritual Israelite, depending on whether or not they are spirit anointed. (Ro 2:28, 29) On the other hand anyone who DOES NOT now become a part of this reborn nation qualifies as a "gentile" in a SPIRITUAL sense REGARDLESS of their particular fleshly nationality.

Agape love;
Sol

AmosAu2
Posts: 440
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Jehovah or Yehowah?

#52 Post by AmosAu2 » 2 years ago

Get out of her wrote:
2 years ago
ooops. Don't quite know how I managed to duplicate that last post. Sorry.
Don't worry Sol, it happens. :)

With regard to your reply, it would seem that you didn't understand my question properly.

There are several different words in the Hebrew & much later in Greek, that have almost totally been mistranslated as "Gentile." When we do our own checking on these words, it becomes very clear that almost every time we see Gentile in any part of the bible, that it's a mistranslation OR is misunderstood.

Each of the original language words ALL have application to different segments of the relevant society that is being spoken about, yet are still ALL lumped together in almost all of our translations as Gentile.

This is where an actual word study can make a complete difference to a better & much more accurate & meaningful understanding of God's word.

Please be patient, as I will get a new topic together that will give a concise & yet easily understood meaning to what I very firmly believe is a topic that will change our understanding (for the better) about exactly who we as Gentiles really are.

Regards, Amos.

Bobcat
Posts: 3753
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Jehovah or Yehowah?

#53 Post by Bobcat » 2 years ago

Sol, Amos,

Just so you know, I cleaned up the duplicates.


Bobcat

Get out of her
Posts: 1017
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Jehovah or Yehowah?

#54 Post by Get out of her » 2 years ago

Thanks for cleaning that up for me Bobcat. Much appreciated. I suppose this means you are one of the moderators on this site. I had no idea.



Amos wrote:
Please be patient, as I will get a new topic together that will give a concise & yet easily understood meaning to what I very firmly believe is a topic that will change our understanding (for the better) about exactly who we as Gentiles really are.

Regards, Amos.
I will be looking forward to reading the information Amos.

Agape love;
Sol

Bobcat
Posts: 3753
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Jehovah or Yehowah?

#55 Post by Bobcat » 1 year ago

Someone on another forum posted this video: Here.

It is regarding a claim to have found the correct vowel pointing for the Tetragram. The video dates to January 2018. I don't know the veracity of the claim other than the narrator's guest who is supposedly a "Hebrew scholar."

My take: He doesn't appear to be a Hebrew scholar to me. He claims to have found 1000 manuscripts that have the divine name with the vowel pointing for Yehowah (which would translate to Jehovah in latinized languages).

Here is the problem: It is not the manuscripts per se. It is the fact that manuscript writers were putting the vowel pointing in place to remind readers to not pronounce the Tetragram. The vowel pointing used to accomplish that resulted in Yehowah (or Jehovah). More on it can be found here.

Not surprisingly, comments on this YouTube page have been turned off. Otherwise, I would imagine they would be getting an ear-full.


Bobcat

Get out of her
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Re: Jehovah or Yehowah?

#56 Post by Get out of her » 1 year ago

Here is a video on the topic I believe is worth viewing.

"https://www.youtube.com/embed/yOfg8R3Ngvs"


While I happen to think these "16" or so "Rabbi's" are on the right track here, i'd have to agree at least to some extent with Bobcat's take on this.

Actually these people seem to be making a case for the rendering of Yehovah as opposed to Yehowah. Perhaps that was just a typo on Bobcat's part unless i'm the one who's mistaken here. I'm assuming they are claiming this is how the name would transliterate in to English actually. For one thing I would think they know that the vov we find in MODERN Hebrew would have been rendered as waw in the more ANCIENT dialects. After all My understanding is they have discovered ANCIENT Hebrew manuscripts. This would mean the name should be rendered as Yehowah rather than Yehovah. But once again if they are transliterating to English then why aren't they presenting the name Jehovah instead of Yehovah? Am I the only one who sees the dilemma here?

Agape love;
Sol

Bobcat
Posts: 3753
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Jehovah or Yehowah?

#57 Post by Bobcat » 1 year ago

Sol, I don't think you grasped what I was saying.

They haven't 'found' any ancient Hebrew manuscripts. If they had, the whole world of Hebrew & Bible scholarship would have been alive with anticipation, wanting to see how they compared with existing mss, and how old they were.

Additionally, they are saying that they have found manuscripts with the Tetragram having the vowel pointing that creates the name Yehowah or (latinized) Jehovah. If they were real "Hebrew scholars" they would know that the Tetragram was regularly pointed with the vowels for Adonai or Elohim so as to warn the reader not to pronounce "the Name." This was discussed in the Wikipedia article I linked to.

Those points and the fact that they had their YouTube comments disabled lead me to believe they are crackpots.

Although I still hold out the possibility that Yehowah or Jehovah will finally be found to be correct, it won't surprise me if it isn't. If the ones who did the vowel pointing of the "Name" actually knew how the "Name" was pronounced, one would think that if their intention was to prevent its pronunciation, they wouldn't use the real vowel pointing to warn the reader against pronouncing the Name. On the other hand, I also wouldn't put it past Jehovah to fool them into doing the very thing they were trying to prevent. (Compare 2Ch 18:18-21; Ex 9:16)

Anyways, that's how I am seeing it at the moment. And what I said above was what set off the 'fraud alert' in me as I watched their video.

I did find it curious how on a pro-JW forum the commenters were shrugging the video off as if to say, 'Yea, we already knew all that.'


Bobcat

Get out of her
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Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Jehovah or Yehowah?

#58 Post by Get out of her » 1 year ago

Thank you for elaborating Bobcat:
Yes I think I did misunderstand your point to some extent as I did in fact kinda hurry through your post. Shame on me.

In my case I strongly suspect that the way the divine name was rendered in ancient Hebrew was --Yahawah. Nevertheless in my humble opinion this recent information you stumbled upon is rather interesting even if it turns out only to uncover more fraudulent tactics designed to further mislead people. I'm glad you posted it and I intend now to take a closer look at the link or two you provided.

Agape love;
Sol

Get out of her
Posts: 1017
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Jehovah or Yehowah?

#59 Post by Get out of her » 1 year ago

Thanks again Bobcat for your posts on this topic.

Had some time today to go over the link you produced much more thoroughly. Definitely see where you are coming from on this.

As I see it the bottom line here would be this:

First of all the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls alone irrefutably establishes that there originally were no vowel points in the original or more ancient Hebrew writings.
{It would be good to understand that when they use the term "vowel points" (also referred to as "vowel indicators"), they are referring to tiny marks placed immediately above specific Hebrew characters within words to indicate or suggest things such as a particular or correct pronunciation.} Moreover, all the evidence suggests that at least when it came to the divine name or --Tetragrammaton, the whole idea for the vowel indicators was to DETER people from pronouncing the divine name AT ALL; and opt rather for simply saying Lord or God. (Adonai or Elohim in Hebrew)

It would therefore seem extremely contradictory for ANY so called Hebrew scholar to want to rely on ANY vowel indicators in ANY Hebrew text to endeavor to prove a correct pronunciation of the divine name in the Hebrew language.

Hopefully these comments reflect a much better understanding of what you were trying to convey---Bobcat. Moreover I completely agree with you for what it's worth.

Agape love;
Sol

johnamos2.0
Posts: 41
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Re: Jehovah or Yehowah?

#60 Post by johnamos2.0 » 2 weeks ago

by Genesis » 2 years ago
Jehovah or Yehowah?
Neither, and it is not on account on whether you use J or Y or V or W. You could use either Y or J and be correct, but should not use the V or the W.

Example, the correct way (IMO) would be Jehoah or Yehoah. And just for the record, Jesus should also be referred to as Jehoshua or Yehoshua. Using the form 'Jesus' is aiding in the practice of avoiding using God's true name.

יהוה

Y י

H ה

V ו (Holding marker for O or U)

H ה

YeHOshua (Jehoshua)
יהושע

YeHO

יהו

YOsef (JOseph)

יוסף

YeHUdaH (JUdaH)

יהודה

YshaYaH (IsaiaH)

ישעיה

YaH

יה

יהוה

יהו (YeHO) + ה (aH) = YeHOaH/JeHOaH

JeHOshaphat – JeremiaH

JeHOiakim – IsaiaH

JeHOram – NehemiaH

JeHOiachin – ZechariaH

Keep in mind that V ו is a holding marker for O or U, and the O or U replaces the V, they are not added in addition too.

Example:

It is YeHOshua, not YeHOVshua

It is YeHUdaH, not YeHUVdah

It is JeHOshaphat, not JeHOVshaphat

It is JeHOiakim, not JeHOViakim

It is JeHOram, not JeHOVram

It is YOsef (JOseph), not YOVsef (JOVseph)

Therefore, based on the accepted spelling of these Hebrew names, it would seem that God’s name is YeHOaH (JeHOaH), not YeHOVaH (JeHOVaH)

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