Revelation

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Orchid61
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Re: Revelation

#241 Post by Orchid61 » 1 month ago

Hi CI,

Thank you for your zealous research!

Love Maria 👩‍🦳🐑🌷

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#242 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Orchid61 wrote:
1 month ago
Hi CI,

Thank you for your zealous research!

Love Maria 👩‍🦳🐑🌷
Thank you, Maria, for making me recheck what I had written. And on re-reading what I had written (see link post 239) I realized a correction and clarification was needed. As always happens when looking at anything through a microscope one doesn't see the bigger picture.

In post 239 I said:
Dragon Ex 7:9
...
As can be seen, the Greek is dragon, #1404, but the Apostolic Polyglot renders it serpent. And though the Heb. is tannin, #8574, it also renders it serpent...
It should say ... though the Heb. is tannin, #8577, not 8574.

Since mistranslation for nachash and tannin also occur in other places in the same account it could be confusing for those familiar with the story. It is therefore helpful to look at the bigger picture. Moses most likely wrote what happened and was said as he went along, so it is not written as a story, but more like diary entries, with one happening following another and conversations overlapping, i.e. with God telling him what to do followed by his doing of what he is told and what happens at that time. With that in mind let's look at the account again.

After being told he should return to Egypt and tell the elders of Israel God's name and inform them that their God would without fail release them from bondage to Pharaoh, Moses had been worried that they would not listen to him. And so God had told him that he should cast his rod onto the ground, which then became a nachash/serpent, and that, as well as another miracle, would prove that he had been sent by the God of their forefathers, (Ex 4:1-5).

Moses had a good reason for his reservations. the circumstances of his birth and subsequent survival, at a time when all Hebrew babes were left to die, would out of necessity, have been kept secret and would have only been known by Aaron and Miriam. On turning his rod into a serpent/nachash, a divining spirit in front of the elders, it would have reminded them of Joseph who had also been a practiser of divination and communicator of God’s words. Another thing to note was that at that time they did not know that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, who had known him as God Sadday, (see, post 223, sadday,field, mistranslated almighty), was named YHWH.

What also bothered Moses was although he was conversant with the ways of the Egyptian court where he had grown up, he was not trained as Aaron appears to have been in the art of public speaking, and therefore feels inadequate, saying: (Ex 4: 10 -13) "Excuse me, YHWH, but I am not a fluent speaker, for I am slow of mouth and slow of tongue ...and YHWH’s anger grew hot against Moses and said ... is not Aaron the Levite your brother? I do know he can speak... (Ex 4:14). He had no doubt heard him speaking publicly more than once. As an elder, he was the equivalent of a modern-day politician. And so God said concerning Aaron... and he must speak for you to the people and it must occur that he will serve as a mouth for you, and you will serve as God for him. And this rod you will take in your hand that you may perform signs with it... (Ex 4:17)

At this point, he went back to collect his wife and sons and bring them to Egypt (Ex 4:18-20). And it is at that time the uncircumcised state of his sons becomes an issue. Moses himself would not have been circumcised, but his sons would need to be circumcised to give credence to the story surrounding his birth Ex 4:24-26

After which God tells Aaron to meet Moses in the wilderness. And Moses related all that YHWH had told him. Aaron then gathered all the older men and spoke to them all that Moses had told him and Moses performed the signs with his rod and they believed that God had sent him Ex 4:27-31.

After that Moses and Aaron gained an audience with Pharaoh as representatives of the Hebrews and said all that God had instructed them to say. They had been told to ask for a furlough for the workers so that they could go into the wilderness to sacrifice to their God. Pharaoh rejected their request. A modern-day equivalent is a union chief confronting their employer with a request for a few days furlough to celebrate a religious festival and their employer not only refusing but increasing their workload instead (Ex 5:1-23).

At that, the sons of Israel turned against Moses, and Moses cried out to God in protest, (Ex 5:1-23). And YHWH answered saying “Now you will see what i shall do to Pharaoh... because of a strong hand he will drive them out of his land. YHWH then instructs Moses in what to say to Pharaoh, and telling him he is going to give the Israelites the land of Caanan Ex 6: 2-5. And he was to tell Israelites that YHWH would deliver them from under the burdens of Egypt (Ex 6:6-9).

Then God instructs Moses to "Go in and speak to Pharaoh ... that he should send the sons of Israel away. But Moses thinks it will be pointless, saying: How will Pharaoh listen to me, as I am uncircumcised of lips, an oblique reference to his uncircumcised state. He repeats this lament just prior to him and Aaron confronting Pharaoh. "Look! I am uncircumcised in lips, so how will Pharaoh ever listen to me." As an uncircumcised man, he was not a Hebrew in the eyes of Egyptians and therefore could not represent them. Consequently YHWH said to Moses: “See I have made you God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet. I shall command you, and Aaron your brother, shall do the speaking to Pharaoh...(Ex 6: 10-30; 7:1).

It was during that audience with Pharaoh, when Aaron threw his rod down and it became a dragon/tannin/crocodile. Pharaoh’s wise men did the same with their rods becoming dragons, but Aaron's dragon gobbled up their dragons. But Pharaoh remained obstinate. So it is the Levite, Aaron's rod, that turns into a tannin/dragon/crocodile. Whereas Moses's rod turned into a nachash to serve as an instrument of communication for YHWH. Moses was at that time given the authority of a god over Pharaoh who was himself considered to be a god of Egypt. YHWH then instructs Moses to confront Pharaoh the next morning with the rod of his authority in his hand. This is when Moses, as God, commands Aaron to use his rod to turn the waters of the Nile into blood, which was the first of the 10 plagues that were to befall Egypt (Ex 7: 14-25)

So Moses's rod served as the nachash, the instrument of direct communication with God, which was later replaced by the stones in the sacred breast pouch of the high priest. And it was Aarons rod that turned into a dragon, a miracle the magic practising priests were able to duplicate. The nachash had non-earthly origins and the dragon was earthly. This is something worth remembering when reading prophecy where dragons are mentioned. So the ancient dragon/tannin the one called devil an Satan of Rev 12:9 & Rev 20:2 was in the first instance the tannin/dragon conjured up by Aaron's rod and also conjured up by the magic practising priests.

Devil is a Greek word that does not occur in the Heb text of the Old Testament. Satan means adversary and first appears at Nu 22:22, see noun, 7854. satan, and the verb, 7853. satan

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It is good to remember what these terms mean when they are used in scripture so that one can understand what is meant.
:)
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#243 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Chapter 20

Part c

As I said in my reply to Maria post 242 above
Devil is a Greek word that does not occur in the Heb text of the Old Testament. Satan means adversary and first appears at Nu 22:22, see noun, 7854. satan, and the verb, 7853. satan
So who or what is this adversary called devil and Satan and what is his relationship to YHWH? When did he become the adversary/Satan and why?

Job 1:6 describes an official meeting of the sons of God

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(highlights, arrows, strike-through & added text mine)

For the parsing hover your cursor over the acronym below each word at this site: Biblehub Interlinear Job 1:6, and for the definition of the word, right-click on Strong's number above the word to open the link in a new tab or window.

If you click on the preposition עַל al #5921 you will find that it means upon, above, over. Below that you will see the the New American Standard Bible has translated this preposition in many different ways completely divorced from the original meaning of the word, most probably in an attempt to align the meaning with their theology. Scroll down that left hand column to the heading, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance ... above, according to, after, as against, among, as, at... Properly, the same as al used as a preposition (in the singular or plural often with prefix, or as conjunction with a particle following); above, over, upon, or against ,(yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect) . By clicking on the al it opens the site עַל al #5920 which shows the reason why against has a downward aspect. Okay, one can now get the feel of this preposition. It is first used at Gen 1:2 ...And the spirit of Gods was hovering over the face of the waters ...

So Job 1:6 ought to be rendered something like this ... Now there came the day when the sons of the Gods came to present themselves over/against Jehovah and Satan also came to be in their midst... Job 1:6 text analysis
The NAS renders this verse thus: ... Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.. One can immediately see it has changed the meaning of the verse completely.

The sons of Gods that presented themselves at this hearing, are the Elohim Gods named Yhwh/Jehovah, and Satan, their adversary enters into their midst to present his accusation against mankind, and he ... answers Yhwh saying skin in behalf of skin and all a man has will give in behalf of his soul/life...(Job 2:4)

Like the Psalmist (Ps 8:4-8), he was amazed that man had been granted authority over the earth (Gen 1:28). He saw man as contemptible and unworthy of such an honour and challenged this at this heavenly hearing. It is in this sense then that Satan takes his stand against YHWH in their midst (Job 1:6). And it is here at this official hearing that Satan tables his accusation against man, implying that man was not a fit custodian of the earth, saying ...skin in behalf of skin and everything a man has he will give in behalf of his soul (Job 2:4). So this son of God became a Satan/adversary at the time when God gave Adam and Eve dominion over all things (Gen 1:28). At that time he, like the Psalmist, said in his heart... What is mortal man that you keep him in mind and the son of Adam that you take care of him. You also proceeded to make him a little less than the gods, and with glory and honour, you crowned him. You make him dominate over the work of your hands. Everything you have put under his feet...(Ps 8:4-6). He saw man as contemptible and unworthy of such an honour. Whereas the Gods that name themselves Yhwh, i.e. Yhwh Elohim/Jehovah Gods (Gen 2:4) were determined to raise man, that had rejected their guidance to a point where he would take up his responsibility. Hence Jesus told his disciples they should sanctify their heavenly father’s name and support him saying ... let your kingdom come, let you will take place on earth as it is in heaven... When his will is done on earth as it is in heaven, Jehovah’s mission will have been accomplished .... It has come to be. And he said to me ... “ it has come to be! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end... (Rev 21:6)

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Yes, indeed! that is the meaning of God’s name Yhwh.

Image (highlights, arrows and added text mine)

As can be seen at 1Ki 13:32, Strong's #1961 is an imperfect verb that means to ‘come to be’. Here it is prefixed with the yod י, even as it does at EX 3:15, which stands for he. ...he shall come to be, but at Ex 3:15 the verb is changed into a noun, (God's name יְהוָֹה ), by replacing the second yod י with an o/u ו which turns the verb, he comes to be into the noun Yhwh. So the phrase, 'Yhwh/Jehovah God[s],' (Gen 2:4), means ‘he comes to be God[s].’

Gerard Gertoux of Academia.edu sent me the link to this youtube video 'The Name of God, Why is the world so determined to hide it? What is God's real name?. His paper on the subject can be downloaded here: https://www.academia.edu/10728293/Gods_ ... tion-paper



And this video,The Origins of Yahweh - NehemiasWall, examines the question from a Jewish perspective. His frankness and conclusions may also surprise you.

LRW~

lynchpin
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Re: Revelation

#244 Post by lynchpin » 1 month ago

Hi ci,

You are working hard these past few months. :hearteyes:

I thoroughly enjoyed the Adonai video and ready to view the second one.

Regards

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#245 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Chapter 20

Part 1d


Hello lynchpin,

I also enjoyed the video, they explain it well don't they. And yes, I am keeping busy and am enjoying learning something new each day.

You may already have known that Elohim, the creator of heaven and earth is plural, but since this is a hard concept to grasp it needs a bit more explanation and support from scripture.

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(reading from right to left, highlights, arrows and added text mine)

For Strong's #430 elohim, open this link, Biblehub # 430 and scroll down the left-hand column to NAS Exhaustive Concordance where it says: Word Origin pl. of eloah. So elohim is plural of eloah. In the right-column is a partial list of 2598 verses where elohim occurs in the OT of the Bible.

Now, If you scroll down further to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance it says:
angels, exceeding, God, very great, mighty. Plural of elowahh; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative -- angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty... see HEBREW'elowahh .

So Elohim/Gods is the plural form of eloha or elowahh, both refer to the same word, it is just a different way of transliterating the Hebrew word. If you then click on either the eloah or elowahh link It will open at 433. eloah: God, god אֱלוֹהַּe. God singular. El is a shortened form of Elohim and is used for gods or god in scripture. And in the right-hand column, you will find a partial list of the 60 verses where the singular form occurs. But note, the singular form, elowahh/god, first occurs at De 32:15, which is after the Gods/Elohim had revealed their name Jehovah to Moses.

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(reading from right to left, highlights, arrows and added text mine)

Now, If one checks out this verse at this site, EX 3:15, Biblehub interlinear one can see that in each case the Hebrew word for God is plural. And to make sure that Israel understood that the Gods of their forefathers, the ones that created the heaven and earth worked in unity as one, Moses said:...Listen O Israel Jehovah our Gods is one Jehovah
De 6:4
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(reading from right to left, highlights, arrows and added text mine)

Let's look at just two examples that reveal much about the Elohim/Gods. After Jacob had sent his family ahead across the ford to placate his brother Esau, he remained alone on the opposite side as night closed in. Then a man ... began to grapple with him until dawn ascended. Jacob held him and prevailed. The man surrendered, and said, "Let me go for dawn has ascended." Jacob must have known this was no ordinary man because he said, "I am not going to let you go until you bless me." To which the man replied that he would no longer be known as Jacob but would be called Israel. Adding ...for you have contented with Elohim, [Gods], and men so that you at last prevailed. Then Jacob asked him his name, but the man said ... "Why is it you enquired of my name?" And then blessed Jacob, who subsequently named the place Peniel, which means 'face of God' saying, ...I have seen Elohim [Gods] face to face and yet my soul is delivered (Gen 32: 24-30)

The other example is from the time after Jehovah had revealed his name to Moses.

Before Samson's birth, his mother had been barren ...In time Jehovah's messenger, [angel] appeared to her, telling her that she would give birth to a son and gave her dietary instruction for herself and the son. When she told her husband he was inclined not to believe her, so he entreated Jehovah to send the man again and to repeat the instructions he had given to his wife. The man appeared again to the wife, and this time she ran to fetch her husband Manoah. When the man confirms that he had spoken to his wife, Manoah asks him to repeat what he had told his wife. The man repeats the instructions. And Manoah invites him to have a meal with him, which he declines, but tells Manoah to instead offer the kid of the goats as a burnt offering to Jehovah. Manoah still thought him to be an ordinary man, and so asks him his name, so that they could name their son after him. But like the man that grappled with Jacob, he also refuses to reveal his name, saying ..."Just why should you ask about my name, when it is a wonderful one?". After Manoah had prepared the sacrifice, the man lit the fire with his hands and ascended to heaven in the flame. That was when Manoah realized that he had indeed been a messenger of the Elohim and he became fearful, saying to his wife ..."We shall surely die because it is Elohim we have seen... (Jdg 13:2-23).

Both Jacob and Manoah were confronted by a man, but Jacob guessed that he was no ordinary man, whereas with Manoah it took a little longer. Neither of these men refused to reveal their names, and both Jacob and Manoah understood that they had spoken to the Elohim [Gods] face to face. From these accounts and many others, it appears that Gods continued to visit men in manifested human bodies after the flood and that those with whom they interacted, knew them to be part of the group of Gods, known as Jehovah. Satan's following also did the same, but other than their carnal relations with women (Gen 6:1-3), to which Jude refers citing Enoch ...Yes, the seventh one in line from Adam, Enoch, prophesied also regarding them (Jud1: 4-9,14), details of their interaction with humans is not recorded in the Bible.

The oral tradition of the Jews replaced the concept of many gods embodied in Jehovah, with Jehovah being a single almighty God. This idea was probably introduced after Nebuchadnezzar's 2 dreams. After his first dream, when Daniel was brought to him to interpret the dream, he asked Daniel ..."Are you able to make known to me the dream and its interpretation?" Daniel answered... There exists a god (eloah singular) in heaven who is a revealer of secrets. Daniel says [a] god to distinguish him from the many gods worshipped in Babylon (Dan 2:28). After Nebuchadnezzar's second dream, he immediately summons Daniel, and says, ...you are able to interpret the dream because the spirit of the holy gods Elohim is in you (Dan 4:9)...So he considers Daniel's Gods as holy or set apart from other gods of that time (Dan 4:18). The dream was of a huge tree that represented Nebuchadnezzar's rule which a watcher (sons of God according to Enoch) ordered to be cut down and its stump banded with copper and iron, to prevent its regrowth, until seven times had passed over it. The watcher then says By the decree of the watchers the thing is, and by the saying of the holy ones the request is, to the intent that people living may know the higher one is ruler in the Kingdom of mankind and to the one to whom he wants to he gives it, and he sets up over it even the low one of mankind...(Dan 4:17).

The copper and iron banding on the stump of the tree represented Greece and Rome respectively (Dan 2:39,40), so from that time forward Greek and Roman philosophy and cultural ethics would be the rule of thumb by which man governed their affairs, until it was time for the heavenly court to judge mankind and pass down their decree as to who should be given ruling authority on earth (Dan 7:9,10,11,12,13,14,27).

It appears then, that prior to the tree being chopped down, the Gods had regularly interacted with humans, even at times with face to face conversations, influencing human affairs one way or the other. Jehovah referred to Nebuchadnezzar as his servant ...even sending Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, my servant, and I will bring them against this land ([Judah] Jer 25:9)... Therefore, Nebuchadnezzar’s success was the direct result of the Jehovah Gods enabling him to carry out what they had purposed. After the tree was chopped down and the stump banded, by decree of the Gods this direct interference in man’s affairs came to an end. From that time forward the gods were no longer able to intercede for either side.

After Babylon had fallen to the Medo/Persians. Another matter was revealed to Daniel; He sees a ... great military service... (Dan 10:1). What he had seen so distressed him that he became depressed and begged Jehovah to explain. After three weeks, a man clothed in linen and covered in what appears to be some kind of metallic armour the like of which he had never seen before appeared to him. After fainting and being revived this unearthly apparition of a man tells him he had been prevented from coming sooner because the prince of Persia had been standing in opposition to him for twenty-one days, adding ...and look! Michael one of the foremost princes came to help me, and I for my part remained there beside the kings of Persia. And I have come to cause you to discern what will befall your people in the final part of the days because the vision is yet for days [to come].

What can be surmised from this is that a satanic prince [a god] had been detailed to oversee Persian affairs in opposition to Jehovah's heavenly host/army. This man in his unearthly garb and Michael had been assigned to prop up the kings of Persia. It also tells us that members of Jehovah's heavenly host/army had been assigned to ensure the decrees of non-interference in human affairs were observed.

But what is odd about this vision is that at that time Persia was the ruling empire. And as he said the vision is yet for many days. Today Persia is Iran. And Daniel had been given the vision to show him what would ... befall Daniel's people in the final part of the days because it is yet for many days. (Dan 10:1-14). Was this a prophetic vision about the current face off between the U.S/Isreal and Iran? See Insanity Reigns: The US, Israel and Iran

From that time onward the Gods of either side were restricted to influencing earthly affairs from the heavenly realm. Prophetic utterances also ceased. When Jesus was born he was human and he referred to himself as the son of man. At his baptism, when Jehovah's spirit descended and acknowledge him as his son, his mind was opened to his origins and from where he had come, (Jhn 14:2,3,4), and what he taught was from the Father (Jhn 12:48,49; 14:10; ). Late in the first century, Jesus contacted John to pass on the revelation of Jehovah containing the details of a sequence of events in the final part of the days. It was presented in symbolic language that would not be understood until they were observed on earth just before Jesus's return, see. post #1 This was the Elohim's last prophetic utterance, but in it they promised the during that time just before the blowing of the seventh trumpet that ...the sacred secret/mystery of God according to the good news, which he declared to his own slaves the prophets is indeed brought to a finish. (Rev 10:7; 11:15; Dan 11:44; 12:1,4,13)
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#246 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Rev 20

The Dragon

And a great war breaks out in heaven: Michael and his angels/messengers battle with the dragon and its angels battle, but it does not prevail, neither is there found a place for them any longer in heaven. So down the great dragon is hurled, the original serpent the one called devil and Satan, (see post #239 & #240, here, also post #242, here,) who is misleading the entire inhabited earth. He is hurled down to the earth and his angels are hurled down with him... (Rev 12:7-10). The time when this war occurred and the dragon is cast out is unknown. The underlined verbs in the quote above are aorist and provide an overview of events, not the timing ...misleading is a present participle that refers to events at the time of the dragon's ouster from heaven. At that time he misleads the entire inhabited earth. This would refer to the time when the false prophet gave great signs and wonders ...it mislead those that dwell on the earth because of the signs that were granted it to perform (Rev 13:13,14), see False Prophet, post #126, #127 & #129, here. This lamb-like, two-horned beast speaks like a dragon (Rev 13:11).

The heavenly dragon is described as having seven crowned heads and ten horns (Rev 12:3). Each of those crowned heads has oversight over one of the heads of its earthly counterpart beast (Rev 13:1,2, cf. Dan10:13) ... Now the beast that I saw was like a leopard, but its feet were those of a bear and its mouth was a lion's mouth. These body parts are remnants of the empires of Dan 7: 1-8, (see post #125 at the False Prophet link above), where I said,
This beast with a body of a leopard and feet of a bear and the mouth of a lion is reminiscent of the beasts of Dan 7:4-8 that arose one after the other after Babylon had fallen. Daniel is told ...'As for these beasts because there are four, there are four kings that will stand up from the earth
Since Daniel received this prophecy during the reign of the last king of Babylon, (Dan 7:1), the next king was the king of Persia. It therefore represents the beast like a lion of Dan 7:4. The Rev 13:2 beast that rises up out of the sea has a lion's mouth, i.e. Persia/Iran, the same one that Daniel saw in a later vision that unmanned him. He was told that this vision dealt with what would befall his people in the final part of the days. See post #245 above.

Most of those following this Revelation thread will only have the Western view of events that led up to the Iranian revolution in 1979. Here is their story, Life Under The Shah Of Iran Before 1979. The following video is an 8mm amateur movie of a visit to Persia under the Shah.

Iran (Persia) 1973 under the Shah.


Perhaps the events foretold at Dan 10:1,12-14 refer to the events that led up to the 1979 revolution in Iran, but there can be no doubt that what happened then has not been forgotten by the false prophet (see False Prophet link in paragraph 1 above)

So the heavenly dragon with seven crowned heads and ten horns that hurls a third of its followers to the earth to take an active part in the action (Rev 12:4), is the heavenly controller of his earthly beast. He is the nachash, the gamer that controls his earthly counterpart, the virtual reality beast on earth. Once he and his henchmen were cast out of heaven (Rev 12:7-9) it was game over with the final outcome assured. "Now have come to pass the salvation and power of the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ.. Those of his brothers who had died previously had conquered. But for those of their number still remaining on earth it would be a trial of endurance (Rev 12:12; 13:10)

Confined to the earth, Satan's power is greatly reduced and it appears that his energies are now directed at pre-empting the return of Jesus, with a counterfeit kingdom of god. Imitating the Egyptian priests that had turned their rods into dragons even as Aaron's rod had done, (see post #239 & #240, here
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#247 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

The Dragon
part 2

In post #245 I referred to what is written at Dan 10:14
After Babylon had fallen to the Medo/Persians. Another matter was revealed to Daniel....to cause him to discern what will befall your people in the final part of the days because the vision is yet for days [to come]

The vision of the military service he had seen, distressed him so much that he went into mourning, imploring God to explain. After 21 days a man of an unearthly appearance comes and tells him why he was delayed, saying, I myself have come to you because of your words. But the prince of the royal realm of Persia was standing in opposition to me for twenty-one days, and, look! Michael one of the foremost princes came to help me, and I for my part remained there beside the kings of Persia. Adding ...I have come to cause you to discern what will befall your people in the final part of the days because this vision is yet for days to come...(Dan 10:1-14). This one then goes on to consecutively list and explain all the events that would lead up to the events of the final part of the days of Daniel's people from Dan 10:20,21 to Dan 11:1-39, after which he says, ..."And in the time of the end, the king of the north will engage with him, the king of the south, and against him, the king of the north,will storm with chariots and horsemen and many ships and he will certainly enter into lands and flood over and pass through... Dan11:40 (but more on this later)


He and Michael had probably been assigned to make sure that the decrees of the watchers of non-interference in human affairs were being observed. And since he doesn’t reveal his name, like the man who grappled with Jacob, he had heavenly origins. So the question that needs to be answered is, who was this prince of Persia that stood against him in the final part of the days.

Beginning in the 20th century, Iran had been ruled by the Shah monarchy, which funded its decadent lifestyle through oil--mainly through concessions to Great Britain, which relied heavily upon the oil during both World Wars--while allowing the majority of Iranians to live a life defined by poverty. Over time, Iranians grew tired of working to see wealth literally extracted from beneath their feet, and a man named Mohammad Mossadegh rose to power...
Mossadegh was elected as Prime Minister in 1951 and, like so many in the Middle East who were voted into power at the time, engaged in a sweeping number of "pro-poor" democratic reforms, which included the nationalization of Iranian oil.


Great Britain dependent on cheap easily accessible oil made sure that the Iranian economy would plummet, using regime-change sanctions and other crony market tactics that are still in use.

At the time, the United States had supported Mossadegh's election, as then the phrase of the day (at least on paper) was a nation's "right to self-determination". And yet, the United States' relationship with its Western ally--or more generally, fear of the ubiquitous communist threat--proved to be stronger...In 1953, the CIA led a coup against Mossadegh--Operation AJAX--and eventually overthrew the leader, as well as the promise of Iranian democracy. The Shah Of Iran re-assumed its control, the West had its predictable oil supply and cosy relations with Iran... See, Life Under The Shah Of Iran Before 1979 (bold and underline, mine)

The CIA coup and the reinstatement of the Shah in 1953 maybe the incident referred to at Dan 10:13,14. This unlawful interference in human affairs was initiated by a prince in opposition to the Jehovah Gods ...But the prince of the royal realm of Persia was standing in opposition to me . He was not the Shah of Iran, but to the unseen powerful entity orchestrating earthly events, as it says ... and look Michael one of the foremost princes of Jehovah's army remained there beside the kings of Persia (Dan 10:13) ( the kings being the legitimate elected human rulers).

Click on the View Gallery button, here and compare life in Iran with that of the U.S. at that time. One of these stars that were hurled down to the earth is referred to at Rev 9:1, see, Post #9, here

At Rev 12:4 after describing the dragon it says, ... and in his tail it drags, (drags #4951 - unwilling participants, as at Acts 8:3). a third of the stars of heaven, and it hurled them to the earth... These stars refer to individuals in key governmental positions that become servants of the dragon, so a symbolic third do his bidding. They were recruited to do his bidding centuries before the war in heaven (Rev 12:7-9), most probably around the time of the reformation, download 'The Nameless War,' here, and see Post #208, here, and Post #194, #195 & #196, here

What happened with Iran is a classic demonstration of a theory on how to govern man, which says in its introduction ... What has restrained the beasts of prey who are called men? What has served for their guidance hitherto? In the beginnings of the structure of society, they were subjected to brutal and blind force;( cf. Gen 4:14,17,18,23,24) afterwards – to Law. which is the same force, only disguised. I draw the conclusion that by the law of nature right lies in force. Political freedom is an idea but not a fact. This idea one must know how to apply whenever it appears necessary this bait of an idea to attract the masses of the people to one’s party for the purpose of crushing another who is in authority. This task is rendered easier if the opponent has himself been infected with the idea of freedom, so-called liberalism, and, for the sake of an idea, is willing to yield some of the power. It is precisely here that the triumph of our theory appears; the slackened hands of the government are immediate, by the law of life, gathered together in a new hand, because the blind might of a nation cannot for one single day exist without guidance, and the new authority merely fits into a place of the old already weakened by liberalism.... Protocol 1 (bold mine). This is Satanic reasoning. .

From the time of humankind's eviction from the biosphere called the Garden of Eden, their creator God[s] has always had their best interests at heart, unlike the adversary/Satan, whose attitude is ...What is mortal man that you keep him in mind and the son of Adam that you care for him? You proceeded to make him a little less than the gods, and with splendour and honour, you crowned him. You make him dominate over the works of your hands, everything you have put under his feet... (Ps 8:4-6; Prov 8:27,28, 29,31). Jehovah is determined to raise humankind from their debased condition to take their rightful place among the sons of the Gods.

And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out of the throne of God and the Lamb, down the middle of its broadway. And on this side of the river and on that side [there were] trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruit each month. And the leaves of the trees [were] for the curing of the nations ...(Rev 22:1,2, cf. Gen 2:9)
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#248 Post by coccus ilicis » 4 weeks ago

Revelation

The Dragon
part 3

Referring to the one who had given Daniel a glimpse of what would befall his people in the final part of the days, (see post #247 above), he then gave a long-range overview of events that would affect his people leading up to this (Dan 11:1-40).

Many have attempted to fit what is written in these verses into a historical time- frame of events, but recorded history of these early times is sketchy at best and written by ones beholden to their benefactors. And the account at Daniel deals only with events related to the desecration of the holy place (Dan 8:10,12; 11:22).

The following comes from an article on the Beroean Pickets site, Revisiting Daniel’s Vision of Four Beasts in which the writer, quoting from the Introduction of the William Whiston edition of Josephus, says:
...Josephus ended up watching the second destruction of the Temple and the defeat of the Jewish nation. His prophecy became true in 68 C.E. when Nero committed suicide and Vespasian became Caesar. As a result, Josephus was freed; he moved to Rome and became a Roman citizen, taking the Vespasian family name Flavius. Vespasian commissioned Josephus to write a history of the war, which he finished in 78 C.E., the Jewish War.[/b] His second major work, the Antiquities of the Jews, was completed in 93 C.E. He wrote Against Apion in about 96-100 C.E. and The Life of Josephus, his autobiography...
He adds, In essence, Josephus claimed the Jewish Messianic prophecies that initiated the First Jewish–Roman War, made reference to Vespasian becoming Emperor of Rome. Certainly, these were pompous or grandiose claims...Rather than repeat a well-written summary please read the following at https://www.livius.org/articles/religio ... vespasian/ (underline and bold mine). This second link also contains applicable not generally known details.

With this in mind, the only reliable pivotal date that one can work from is the time of the end, and it is not until then when all that was foretold is fulfilled that one can make a correct application of all the events of Dan 11:3-39. But here is what can be discerned at this point.

The heavenly messenger said to Daniel ... In the first year of Darius of the Medes, (after the fall of Babylon cf. Dan 9:1), I stood up as a strengthener and a fortress to him... and now what is truth let me tell you: Look there will yet be three kings standing up for Persia and a fourth one will amass greater riches than all the others. And as soon as he has become strong in his riches he will rouse up everything against the kingdom of Greece...

What follows is a summary of what occurred at the time of Alexander the Great (Dan 11:1-4), pictured as the one-horned goat that tramples the Persian ram of Dan 8:1,7-8. What happened at that time had a profound effect, and redirected Daniel’s people onto an erroneous course that they would continue to follow into the final part of the days; see, Post #219, Dan 8: 9 -14, 26, here . That appears to be what is referred to at Dan 11: 31 ...And there will be arms that will stand up, proceeding from him, and they will actually profane the sanctuary the fortress and remove the constant feature. In Hebrew/Aramaic the language and the words used is identical to that of Dan 8:13,14

At Dan 11:5 he says, "And the king of the south will become strong, even one of his princes and he will prevail against him, the Greek king Seleucus Nicador who ruled over the Persian territory, and will certainly rule with extensive dominion [greater than] that one's ruling power... This is the first time the king of the south is mentioned. He was the little horn that emerged out of the diatochi to become great (Dan 8:9,10), see post #219, here

Google - When he was asked who should succeed him, Alexander said, “the strongest”, which answer led to his empire being divided between four of his generals: Cassander, Ptolemy, Antigonus, and Seleucus (known as The Diadochi or 'successors').
Wikipedia: The Wars of the Diadochi (Ancient Greek: Πόλεμοι τῶν Διαδὀχων, Pólemoi tōn Diadóchōn), or Wars of Alexander's Successors, were a series of conflicts fought between Alexander the Great's generals over the rule of his vast empire after his death. They occurred between 322 and 281 BC... In the long wars that followed between the different Diadochi, Ptolemy's first goal was to hold Egypt securely, and his second was to secure control in the outlying areas

But why is he referred to at the king of the south?

Image

(arrows & added text mine)

With Ptolemy’s seat of government in Alexandria being geographically south of the former Persian Empire, he becomes the king of the South. From that time forward the prophecy of Daniel chapter 11 deals with two opposing entities, the king of the north and the king of the south, whose national identities change over time. The kings mentioned are ones that have had dealings with Daniels people right up to the time of the end. The last conflict between the king of the north and the king of the south is described at Dan 11:36 -39. This most likely refers to the British Empire which reached its zenith around the time of the reformation and morphed into the end-time king of the north after WW2. At which time he rules supreme and the king of the south becomes a nonentity (Dan 11:40).

U.N Security Council
The permanent members of the United Nations Security Council (also known as the Permanent Five, Big Five, or P5) are the five sovereign states to whom the UN Charter of 1945 grants a permanent seat on the UN Security Council: China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States ...All five permanent members have the power of veto, which enables any one of them to prevent the adoption of any "substantive" draft Council resolution, regardless of its level of international support... (underline and bold mine)

Image

Note the geographical location of the P5 nations that make up the king of the north of Dan 11:40,41.

In the time of the end the Anglo/American king of the north with the Zionists at the helm entered into Palestine, see videos, pt 1-4 The Zionist Story, in posts #233, #235,#236 & #237, here ...and there will be many made to stumble... with those escaping out of their hand being ... Edom Moab and the main part of Ammon, Dan 11:40,41. But the Edomites, Moabites and Ammonites no longer exist as ethnic groups, so to whom does this apply?

Image

Israel–Jordan relations
Israel–Jordan relations are the diplomatic, economic and cultural relations between Israel and Jordan. The two countries share a land border, with three border crossings: Yitzhak Rabin/Wadi Araba Crossing, Jordan River Crossing and the Allenby/King Hussein Bridge Crossing, that connects the West Bank with Jordan. The relationship between the two countries is regulated by the Israel–Jordan peace treaty in 1994, which formally ended the state of war that had existed between the two countries since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, and also established diplomatic relations, besides other matters. Relations between the countries get strained from time to time, usually over tensions at the Al-Aqsa mosque... (underline mine).
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#249 Post by coccus ilicis » 3 weeks ago

Dragon part 3,
continued from post #248 above.

The King of the North (Dan 11:42.43; Rev 13:11-15)

So where does this leave us in the stream of time? The end-time king of the north consists of these nations:

Image
(arrows and added text mine)

...And he, the king of the north, will actually rule over hidden treasures of gold and silver, (Dan 11:43).

Image
(added text mine)This is the hidden treasure that the king of the north rules over,

... and over all the desirable things of Egypt, (Dan 11:43).

Alliance with Egypt is Key for the U.S.
Egypt was and remains the dominant force in the Middle East. Since World War II, the balance of power in the region has shifted twice. First in the 1950s, when Egypt led the region into a de facto alliance with the Soviet Union. Then, in the 1970s, when Anwar Sadat decided Egypt’s interests were better served by allying with the U.S.

Wikipedia - Economy of Egypt
...Egypt's mineral and energy resources include petroleum, natural gas, phosphates, gold and iron ore. Crude oil is found primarily in the Gulf of Suez and in the Western Desert. Natural gas is found mainly in the Nile Delta, off the Mediterranean shore, and in the Western Desert. Oil and gas accounted for approximately 7% of GDP in fiscal year 2000/01.
Export of petroleum and related products amounted to $2.6 billion in the year 2000


And the Libyans and the Ethiopians will be at his steps, (Dan 11:42,43).

Wikipedia - Ethiopia–United States relations
... Ethiopia at this time still remains a partner in fighting terrorism with the king of the north. Ethiopia–United States relations are bilateral relations between Ethiopia and the United States. Ethiopia is a strategic partner of the United States in the Global War on Terrorism... Recently, the Ethiopian government has been criticized for severe human rights violations. According to Human Rights Watch, the aid given by the United States is being abused to erode democracy in Ethiopia
... Will it be the next one to fall???

And what about the Lybians? Libya has fallen.

Attacks on Libya
The 2011 Attacks on Libya represented "perhaps one of the most egregious examples of US military aggression and lawlessness in recent memory".[1] The US was aided by 13 fellow NATO members (Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Denmark, France, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Romania, Spain, Turkey, the UK), and 4 other states (Jordan, Qatar, Sweden & United Arab Emirates). They began in March and ended on 31 October, 10 days after Muammar Gaddafi was murdered by his NATO-backed rebel captors. Seven months of NATO airstrikes were estimated to have killed 60,000 Libyan civilians...Despite its stated opposition to NATO intervention, Russia abstained from voting on United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 instead of exercising its veto power as a permanent member of the Security Council; four other powerful nations also abstained from the vote — India, China, Germany, and Brazil — but of that group only China has the same veto power..."The fall of Muammar Gaddafi in 2011 sent Libya into freefall and spread chaos across northern Africa. Weapons poured into northern Mali and emboldened Islamic militias in the Sahel – one of the world's hottest, driest and least stable regions – to spread their influence over a number of towns and villages...



The war-mongering present can be so depressing. Below is an uplifting view of Libya and its peoples as it was before 2011, and as it was thousands of years ago.

Enjoy your Christmas break, your yuletide or whatever you celebrate or not at this time of the year. Regardless of your culture or belief or non-belief, take a break from the usual, stop, and look up to the stars, feel the wind and warmth of the sun, and thank the one who has provided this wondrous planet of ours, this spaceship in time and space, the one that provides sustenance to all and who makes the sun rise upon wicked people and the good.

Try to love those hating you as well as your friends. For if you love only those that love you, what reward to you have? (Mt 5:45,46). But if you make the effort to love and do good to those who hate you, it will at least make you feel good, won't it? And even though your show of love might not be reciprocated, your action will be remembered and paid forward by them in some way somewhere along the line. The measure for measure principle is always at work, and always works both ways. (Mt 7:2).

Libya's Forbidden Deserts | Full Documentary | TRACKS
LRW~

Orchid61
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Re: Revelation

#250 Post by Orchid61 » 3 weeks ago

Regardless of your culture or belief or non-belief, take a break from the usual, stop, and look up to the stars, feel the wind and warmth of the sun, and thank the one who has provided this wondrous planet of ours, this spaceship in time and space, the one that provides sustenance to all and who makes the sun rise upon wicked people and the good.

Try to love those hating you as well as your friends. For if you love only those that love you, what reward to you have? (Mt 5:45,46). But if you make the effort to love and do good to those who hate you, it will at least make you feel good, won't it? And even though your show of love might not be reciprocated, your action will be remembered and paid forward by them in some way somewhere along the line. The measure for measure principle is always at work, and always works both ways. (Mt 7:2).
Thank you and same to you too.
Love Maria 🌷

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